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Joined: Oct 2000
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ok, i'll stick my neck out here a tad...
[Linked Image]

does anyone think AFCI's are a cop out for other safety measures left unaddressed ?

How many here are tired of the manufacturing sector's overexposure in the marketplace concerning this?

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does anyone think AFCI's are a cop out for other safety measures left unaddressed?
Actually, I think they are a great idea in a way. There are some ceiling fans and such that work won't out of the box when installed on an AFCI circuit (I hope the AFCIs are that sensitive).

It may drive manufacturers to produce products that arc less -- which I hope means not at all.

What safety measures did you have in mind?
Minimum 12-2-G in extension cords for 3 to 12'?
Integral OPD on each device?
20 A plugs on blow dryers?
Different base for light bulbs above 60 W?
Metal conduit or armor everywhere above ground?
U prongs up? [Linked Image]

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Minimum 12-2-G in extension cords for 3 to 12'? If proper spacing is kept for Receptacles, extension cords are unnecessary.
But I like the idea.

Integral OPD on each device? As long as the circuit is protected as per Code, this would be unnecessary.

20 A plugs on blow dryers? Great Idea! for those above 1440W...

Different base for light bulbs above 60 W? Mogul base for 75W and up? Or similar? Not a bad idea either.

Metal conduit or armor everywhere above ground? Or sched. 80 PVC (assuming outdoors)

U prongs up? Don't get me started again... [Linked Image]

Thanks for all the replies! I still can't get AFCIs through any of the suppliers in this area , though. Tom, have you had any luck?


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-04-2001).]


-Virgil
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AFCI's are reqiured in bedrooms, this is due to statistical reseach showing that the majority of dwelling fires start in bedrooms. I question the variables included in this research to bring this to this conclusion. I also question the exclusion of other rooms. If some items as you suggest were addressed, being suspected to be the culprit of disaster, maybe this would have sugared off differently.

[Linked Image]

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The problem with this requirement is that a many more fires start between the receptacle and the load, than between the receptacle and the panel. The code requirement is for "branch circuit" protection. Branch circuit AFCIs provide only limited protection for faults downstream of the receptacle. A receptacle AFCI would prevent MORE fires then branch circuit AFCIs, but the code requires branch circuit AFCI protection.
Don(resqcapt19)


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I understand the CH literature to indicate their AFCI CB's, do monitor recp loads.

Glenn

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If you read the fine print it says "limited" protection for receptacle loads.
Don(resqcapt19)


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Is this due to V-drop? being a 75W threshold AT the device?

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Branch circuit/feeder AFCIs (that is what the Cutler-Hammer AFCI breakers are listed as) are tested to detect series and parallel arcing on the fixed wiring and only parallel arcing on the portable wiring. A parallel arc is hot to neutral, a series arc would be an arc at a connection on one of the conductors.
Don(resqcapt19)


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"A parallel arc is hot to neutral, a series arc would be an arc at a connection on one of the conductors." Don(resqcapt19)
How would any series arc be guaranteed to be picked up by an AFCI? The current would still have to go through the high impedance of the extension cord and load, no matter where the arc point is. Keep in mind arcing creates high frequency and impedance is seen differently at high freq and 60 Hz. Isn't the difference in frequency what the AFCI is really measuring when looking at the sine wave? The jagged spikes look like higher frequency to the monitoring circuits.

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