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#76235 01/09/01 01:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
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Bennie,

I have no problem adherring to this 4 wire rule for New Installations. My comments were regarding the training of the Salesperson and the surprising lack of documentation on the Appliance itself. I thought they usually covered themselves pretty good that way. Look at the Anti-tip (don't step on the door of the Range) pictures - I get a kick out of that one! [Linked Image]

Labels on the outside (2) described how the 4th wire was to connect to the Green screw on the Frame but did not mention at all that the neutral-to-frame bond was then supposed to be cut. The connection (a butt splice) was located behind the connecting block and not visible. I knew that it was there somewhere, but I wonder how many never get cut?


Bill
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#76236 01/09/01 06:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 246
R
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Since there has not been any problems up to now, with grounding the dryer with the neutral, why is there concern about the neutral to ground link on dryers on a 4-wire system? If it is there, the paths have not changed, tho paralleled, which could be a problem. If it is removed, the paths are still there, but now on the correct wires.

My thought would be to get the manufacturers to build these units without the link, giving the homeowner/electrician the option to install it, if installed on a 3-wire system, which, with each new home built or new dryer circuit installed, is decreasing in use. The installation instructions need to concise and understandable.

This is the same as giving the homeowner/electrician the option to remove it for a 4-wire system, as is currently the situation.

Rick Miell

#76237 01/09/01 07:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
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Isn't a dryer really a 120/240 deal? aren't there some 120v cotrols, indicator lights etc. [Linked Image]
Can't we talk fundamental electrical theory here?

#76238 01/09/01 08:08 PM
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Sparky,

Yes, the Dryer is a 120/240v Appliance. The Heating elements are 240v and everything else is 120v. Normally this would require a 4 wire circuit, but the NEC had allowed 3 wire cables (for Ranges also) for many years under certain conditions. The most common wiring I've seen is SE cable. The following is a Quote from 1990 Handbook (notes after 250-60)

The use of the grounded circuit conductor for grounding purposes is contrary to other requirements of the Code..... However, it has been allowed for many years because of the good safety record of these particular appliances that are grounded through the grounded circuit conductor and because an open splice or break in the grounded circuit conductor would normally render the appliance inoperable.....

Rick, I'm not really that concerned (safetywise) about the link not being removed, I just find it Ironic at best, that the code rules are changed and 4 wire receptacles are installed but many dryers will still be "3 wire" because nobody knows how to cut the link.


Bill
#76239 01/09/01 11:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 72
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The agreement by manufacturers, when the four wire concept was adopted, was that the dryers would not be sold with an attachment cord. The neutral/ground link was to be present, but not connected.
The customer could install a cord to match the existing receptacle. This was the manufacturers decision to limit liability, and to not discourage sales. Both the three or four wire cords could be installed.
Some of the more reputable dealers have a service person install the dryer, and connect vent, and cord. There is some that don't, it is up to the buyer.
There will soon be a washing machine, approved for ungrounded operation. I expect to see a dryer, soon.
Manufacturers are getting hammered with product liability lawsuits, from persons being injured by appliances that have grounding cords, and the circuit does not have an equipment ground wire. This is regarded as a false implication of safety. The manufacturers lose all cases, they are usually settled out of court.
Grounding of appliances has been out of phase with the code book, since day one.
Count the metal appliances, in your kitchen, that have a three wire cord. Count the appliances, in your home, that have a three wire cord. Count the outlets that have a three wire receptacle that will never see a three wire cord.

#76240 01/10/01 10:36 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Bennie R. Palmer:
... The neutral/ground link was to be present, but not connected.

Bennie,

How can you have a "Link" that is not connected? I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you please explain a little more?


Bill
#76241 01/13/01 03:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 72
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The instructions state; For three wire cords connect the link, to the neutral terminal. Four wire cords, do not connect the link.
This is only one name brand manufacturers instructions. I have seen homeowners connect the neutral and ground to the same terminal and not connect the link. I have seen some with the ground to the frame, and the link connected. I have seen many with a three wire cords and the link not connected. This change is really creating problems with persons that often move to other homes.

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