ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Solar a viable energy alternative?

In Germany you usually pay at the moment between .20 to .30 UsCents per kWh. Solar and wind power projects are not financed by taxes, but there is a law, that obliges the PoCos to buy solar power or wind power at defined rates in order to promote the development of those new power sources.
This program is of course limited with regard to time and also in some way to the extent of green energy that has to be bought.

So it is in the end financed by the consumers.

In Germany you can buy, based on European laws, your energy from one of more than a hundred providers. To make this possible all PoCos were split up into a grid part, supplying cable, counter and any other hardware on one hand and energy sellers on the other. Only the grid part price is regulated as being a monopoly by nature.

So in case you feel green and got enough money you will look for a very green provider (like "Greenpeace energy") which then will supply only green energy (which is checked very exactly), or you just buy the cheapest, as you like.

By these two measures we got a relatively high density of wind power in a country with moderate wind and a small but nevertheless interesting photovoltaic power production without very much sunshine. You can't get rich with that stuff, but with some idealism you will be able to cover your costs.

[This message has been edited by Wolfgang (edited 02-25-2007).]

Solar for generating power, forget it, to expensive and maintenace prone.

It is ok for pre heating water or heating swimming pools to reduce overall powerusage, instead of heating up cold water at 6°C.

Here's another fun element of conversation....

The Solar Facility I mentioned earlier in the thread is powered by Stirling Engines.... http://www.stirlingenergy.com/

Quote:
'the Stirling project would provide enough clean power to serve 278,000 homes for an entire year," said SCE Chairman John Bryson.


Yet take up a simular amount of real estate.

This is how one works..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

They need to be articulated toward the sun. http://www.stirlingenergy.com/video/...se_footage.wmv

They have even more maintenance problems than PV cells Fixed in place.

More Stirling Engine Gen sets... http://www.stmpower.com/Markets/STM%...2011-15-04.pdf

Maybe this can be incorporated into the French "Air Car"? http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html Who also may be looking into the Air Gen set...

It uses a far greater amount of energy to create silicon solar cells than they will return in their limited lifespan as electrical output. The end user may see a benefit of purchasing and installing solar pv in his residence, but as far as " helping to save planet Earth" goes its another looser method. Having said that , I as an electrical contractor see solar pv system installations as a gold mine, and would never let the customer know he is helping to fuel the energy crisis, since he is helping to fund my Mercedes crisis.

Great topic, Mark. I'm all for alternative sources of energy as long they work and are effecient to the end user. But what I don't understand is how the energy gets from the generating plant to the customers home/ commercial business.

You are joking right - WIRE - we are in the biz of selling the stuff...

What I think your trying to say is 'How is the energy produced?' The Stirling engine turns a traditional revoling magnetic field generator. Collectively they operate in parralel colectively, as many other generating systems do. (Not so difficult a task - but would incure losses if out of sync.) However I am not sure at what voltage the are generating at... Med Voltage (2000V)tops... As I do not see the isolation nessesary for anything past that.

Actually, I was being serious. It was unclear to me wether the conversion of energy was done at the plant or at the place its going to be used. Thats why I quoted what I did in the last post. Where is this canister the size of an oil barrel located? And how big is this Sterling Dish?

Oh... Apparently it, (the Stirling Engine and its oil drum sized canister) and the 25kW?* generator it runs are located at the focal point of the dish structure which is about 40' in diameter. So I assume them to be big enough to cradle a semi trailer in?

*Another part of the site said 1 MW takes 40 of these.... So for 500 MW they need 20,000 of them... But if they can find birdless skys far from Martha's Vineyard they could put up 70-100 of these. http://www.ge.com/stories/en/20423.html?category=Product_Business



[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 02-26-2007).]

For a long tale about the reasons for going with solar (and wind) power on a very small scale, see here:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000757.html

The only reason for going the PV route was because the PoCo was quoting almost $40,000 to provide grid power. If utility power had been available at reasonable cost then PV wouldn't have even been considered.

But to address the question of total solar for residential, commercial, and industrial uses, I don't see it as being viable -- And certainly not in the English climate!



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 02-26-2007).]