ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Bad ideas from Architechs in home zines

it was rhetorical...

I wasn't answering your question I was just speculating on how this could be done legally... if you don't mind?

[This message has been edited by Elviscat (edited 12-18-2006).]

I'm going to take something of a contrary view....

First of all, I don't think the NEC applies here. Once you come out of the wall, you have an "appliance," not part of the installation. NEC rules apply no more than they do on the inside of a kitchen range or dishwasher.

Next, I see a role for this sort of arrangement, especially with kitchen counters and computer stations. In both situations, you have equipment that you ordinarily want out of the way, but also want to be able to pull it out for servicing.

Indeed, I almost want to do something like this in my shop, so I can have my tool batteries being charged, secure, and not cluttering up the benchtop.

Necessity may be the mother of invention; convenience is an aunt. Unfortunately, their inbred cousin, the "Handy Hank" whose work appears far too often on this site, is never far away. If something is not readily achieved with off-the-shelf items, you can count on him to casually ignore sense, and mangle things until they sort of 'work.'

I would agree that the UL/NEC lines here are blurred... Nothing in the drawing suggests a 'product' or 'kit', but does suggest a mounted outlet box in a movable drawer, hardwired to an junction box via a non-chapter 3 method. (flex coil?) If "flex Coil" suggested NM to some as in a 'coil' of NM - it would be a violation, support physical damage... The outlet box in the drawer is not covered in 314.23(A) through (H). It might be considered with a wide view that it is 'pendant mount' but it isn't really, so it is quite possible a lack of support for the outlet box.

They do make, so I have found, a 'coiled' SOW, and SJOW, but as a circuit extension for a 15 - 20A circuit it would need to be 14 or 12. At which point that cord is going to be a BEAST behind a drawer. (.6-.75 OD with a coil diameter of 2 1/4")

And if it were a "Listed" product or kit, it would have installation details provided that would have specific parameters for the instalation of this... Probhably furnature equipment listing etc.

Bottom line, its a neat idea... But my AHJ would not sign off on it as drawn. With jumping around through a lot of code hoops I could make something like it work to code, but I am going to have 5 marker tabs in my book at the ready for the inspection, and even then it would be a crap shoot.

A case in point, remember those "Pop-up" recepticals someone posted in a recent thread? I know someone who tried to use them and got shot down as they were considered subject to physical damage behind a drawer - they had to have the cabinet maker build a dividing panel to protect the cord. (The electrician did not even install them - the GC did, and they were present at the final - EC got the hit...)

I really see this being cord and plug connected if Harry Homeowner is doing it.
I have something somewhat similar that is C&P. I built a sliding rack under the bathroom counter for my wife's hair dryer and other hair stuff. It has a HD plug strip in it with a 14ga cord and internal breaker, plugged into an undercounter GFCI receptacle. I did go to some care to strain relive the cord and make it fold in a gentle bend in a clear spot. I do have experience with cords and movable parts from the computer biz.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 12-18-2006).]

Most people would cobble this together, making it bad. But as mentioned, I think it could be done well:

• Receptacle behind drawer
• 12/3 SO with NEMA 5-15 plug and strain relief, going to strain relief at drawer
• Permanant, boxed receptacle inside drawer
• Cabinet bellow drawer to allow access
• Drawer short enough not to crush cord

That way it's not hard-wired, it's accessable, it has a disconnect means, it's not subject to damage, it doesn't need additional OCP. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the problem if carefully executed.

All that being said, it would be much easier, and much less questionable to simply put a receptacle in a cabinet and put the chargers in there.

-John

[This message has been edited by BigJohn (edited 12-22-2006).]

I have a computer in a drawer here by my chair. I used a piece of 4" PVC vertical blind material attached to the drawer and to the back of the cabinet. That will form a smooth loop when the drawer is closed. I have all my cables attached to that strip. I didn't invent that. IBM did it on equipment where they had a bunch of cables going across a hinge or a moveable cover. It spreads the bending out evenly, secures the cables and keeps things organized out of other moving parts. You could do that here.

Our moderator is correct - Outside of the wall it lies outside of the scope of the NEC.

Huh? Are you saying ceiling fans, pendant lights or flex connected motors are not required to meet the appropriate NEC articles? None are "inside a wall".

The only way I see this being a grey area is if it is cord and plug connected.