ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area CEU's

I think Reno is saying a guy who sleeps through a CEU course doesn't suddenly aquire ethics and being good at standardized tests does not guarantee skill in a largely mechanical trade.
I get a chance to watch these guys working around the neighborhood and the worst crook I have seen was licensed. A complaint to the DPBR still didn't make him do a decent or code conforming job. The trunk slammer my neighbor hired to fix the EC's work did a lot better job ... for a tenth the money.

I too think I got reno's point - dare I say it I agree. Simular comparisions are made by where when and who you got your apprenticship from. Or what language you speak or speak at home. I know guys speak Chinese and got thier apprenticeship from "Hard-knocks U" who are fantastic electricians. Just cant take a standardized test in english....

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 09-18-2006).]

Let me try to help a little here, in jersey many of the inspectors, were noticing a lot of lic. contractors, did not know the current codes, so many of them believed the ceu's for code updates were needed, now; not all the contractors were lacking code know how but a large number were, as was noted in iwire's post, some din't open the book, and the ceu's may help bring them up to date, another benifit of the ceu's classes, is the benifit, of discussing the code issues, with others in your trade, as well as material presented in class, most of us here on ECN had the benifit of these discussions, on the forum, so the question; do ceu's work, can be measured by, did the inspectors find less problems with code issues, since ceu hours have been increased.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 09-19-2006).]

Well did they?

As for ECN and other forums, I have to admit... I'm a freaky code geek.... If I go to one of those classes - I'll never leave.

My name is Mark Heller, and I'm a Code Geek... there I said it.

I don't think most people have half the work ethic or addiction to it all as some of us here. (Good thing)

If people cant pass inspections - FAIL THEM!

A person who passed a license exam in 75 and has never opened a code book since, (let's say because he has stayed inside a factory somewhere) surly wouldn't pass an inspection today wiring to what he remembered as code at that time.

A one time exam without Continuing Education isn't worth much.

If nothing else, it will make them aware of the fact codes change (which is what most CEU's are as LK says)

Greg, no book testing or classes will make a skilled Mechanic, and as far as the sorry contractor you are talking about, let me say Welcome to FL. (or anywhere really)

This Crook will be the same Continuing Education or not, that is why I question how this subject became part of this thread.

Nobody has said a small licensed contractor working out of his car or pickup is not responsible or slacks in knowledge or workmanship.

Roger

Mark, very good point.

Those who are active here and are "Code Geeks", would have a very good chance of passing an impromptu code exam thrown at them.

I wonder if ECN could be recognized as an approved CEU course, it should be.

Roger

I am an example of the flip side of this "testing/CEU" question. When I started inspecting I had hundreds of hours of classes and lots of experience in office buildings and computer rooms but there were some things that I could quote chapter and verse about the code requirements of but I couldn't point it out in the room. I have still never seen MI cable.

Guys not curent on code? How can you tell?

Let us imagine a typical scenario: The inspector sees something, and says "that's wrong." Now, what's the sparky going to say? Take your pick:

a) "No it isn't you ignorant paper pusher!"
b) "Really? When did we start requiring....?"
c) "Gee, I didn't know!"
d) "Where's that apprentice?"
e) "I must have forgottem my smart pill that day" or, finally,
f) "We've always done it that way"

I suspect that even the guy who has the entire code memorised isn't going to use choice "a".

Reno:
As an AHJ, I've heard ALL of the above over various instances.

IMHO, CE helps, but it will ONLY help IF the guys that sign-up and pay whatever fees.....PAY ATTENTION.

Like it or not, IT's LAW, and required in NJ to renew your Lic & BP.

Yes, it can be a financial 'gain' for some, but, like LK said, there's a whole lot of work in preparation and obtaining approvals from the Board, and PAPERWORK.

Sure, there may be 'corruption' within the system, after all this is New Jersey. The NJEIA runs a tight ship, the Board can & does spot check; and the results of any 'funny business' can and will result in Lic suspension, revocation, and $$$$ fines for all parties involved.

Time permitting, I have to go back to the top of this thread & absorb the firestorm.

Anyone wishing to carry this further with me, feel free to e-mail me direct. Responses may be 'slow', as Wed is a long day, 8 hrs AHJ & then teach apprentices at Vo-Tech.

John

Johnhlec1@aol.com