ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Handymen

OK, a GC with Insurance that gets 'inspections' is an exception.

How 'involved' with electrical work do you get??

Orange County issues Electrical Permits?

Do you sub licensed electricians when you work in the three cities??

Please don't think I'm bashing you, I'm curious. From what you stated, you would not fall into "handyman" by my definitions.

John

No offense taken. I do renovations and remodeling mostly, but would do complete installs on new construction if I could get the job. The permits are handled by the individual towns and villages. Find out what town they live in, call the building dept. Show them proof of insurance, give them a drawing of what I plan on doing. I bid a job for a 1600sq. ft. commercial buildout where I had a licensed electrician bid the electrical. Didn't get the job though, two guys bid half what I did. Just about what materials would have cost me in fact.

I hesitate when people ask me to classify myself. I'm not a diy by any stretch. I'm not a hack, but I'm also not a licensed electrician. Where you guys would recite the code for a problem, I have to go look it up. Following Trumpy's question though, I fall into the group that are "allowed to do the work of an Electrician, without having served the time we did?". But this is exactly why I like it this way. I know enough electrical to do residential, and I didn't have to dig ditches for a few years. I don't pretend that this is a substitute for an aprentice program, but I did study physics in college. Not your typical handyman, but not a licensed electrician either.

Legally in Austria no one without a sufficient education (apprenticeship or technical school) is allowed to touch any live parts, i.e. do anything beyond changing light bulbs, and no one without a master's license is allowed to charge money for his work.
That's the theory. Reality looks different... with all the hack jobs from colleagues I've seen I can understand why most people don't really trust pros either and don't see a problem in hiring handymen. I'm just ripping out a whole mess done by professionals, melted wires, wrong colors, way too much bare copper...

beyond changing light bulbs anyone doing any type of electrical work in British Columia must have some sort of trade qualification related to the type of work they do. An electrician covers all the sub clasifications like communications, alarm installer, sign and light fixture installer, entertainment, etc.

Unfortunately, I have seen better work done by handy men, than by the hacks working for most of the electrical outfits in my neck of the woods.

Someday(sigh), PA will go to a license. And hopefully they will require the techs to hold licenses rather than just the owner. This would put alot of hacks out of business, but would benefit the consumers and public by leaps and bounds.

So long as they know what to do, I don't have a problem with it. I mean, lets face it, it doesn't take a genius OR an encylopedic knowledge of the codes to wire up a receptacle or a light- the electrical section of the IRC is short enough that it can be read in half an hour and covers pretty much everything a handyman type will be called upon to do.

Problem is that most can't be bothered to pay $70 for a copy of IRC, and are too often coerced into doing illegal stuff the homeowner insists upon. If they did know the code and point it out to the homeowners when they want to do something illegal, we wouldn't be seeing problems like we do...

Pros, too, really. I haven't met a framer, plasterer or roofer yet who's read the codes. They talk the talk and insist they know the "right" way to do it, but when challenged, they really have no idea, just that they've always done it that way and every other way must be wrong. It's scary...

[This message has been edited by SteveFehr (edited 07-28-2006).]

You might think that.....until you swing by the violation photos.

Sure many can do fine, more know just enough to make it work but have safety issues they do not even realize.

By the way....thanks for the compliment.

My nephew Joey is of the opinion that "it ain't rocket science." Of course, Joey has never seen the inside of any rockets fancier then "Roman candles," so he doesn't know that rocket were useless fireworks, until plumbers and electricians made them useful!

Joey is getting quite a following in this town... a following of AHJ's, who continue to marvel at his resoursefullness in finding ways to violate ever more codes.

The point is, that while it may not ne so hard to twist a wire nut, or bang in a nail.... thousands of 'little' things add up into making 'large' things. Tradesmen of all types can tell tales of messes that would have never happened, if only the guy who did the work had followed a few simple trade practices...

Nor is "education", by tiself, any guarantor of competence. Some of out biggest 'horror stories' involve degreed professionals who assumed they could 'figure it out themselves.'

I think this thread from the Violations forum is an excellent example of the incompetant installations we're talking about:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000996.html

Looking at that, any of us can rattle off at least a half dozen codes he violated. Some of these would have been obvious to anyone with half a head on their shoulders- the whole can wiring, for instance. But, again, there is nothing complex here, just some lights and receptacles. It doesn't take a 5 year apprenticeship to do the kind of work this guy attempted- anyone who had taken a half hour to read the IRC's residential electrical section should easily have been able to do this correctly, including this guy. Might not have been pretty, but would be safe and legal.

After many years working the chemical plants here the only reqirement to be an electrician there was to be certified.or to have a craft performance evaluation.then after leaving the plant i found that the only requirment here to be a master electrician is to simply pass the test . this in itself is insane............worst of all is having to clean up the aftermath of a "handymans" work....here actualy without a license.....a permit can be pulled by the home owner or owner of the property with no questions asked as long as the fee was paid...and call me what you will.........a tattletale or whatever. i will and have reported illegal practices. and will continue to do so..... this is my livelyhood.......this puts beans on my table
let those handymen pay their dues as did we all.....if this post offends anyone i apologise for that but ill make no apologies for the way i feel on this subject.
thanks and good luck