ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area I'd hate to be this guy

Gentlemen:
Seems like the 'jersey guys' are starting to go at it! Time for my 2 cents, or maybe 3 cents tonite.

As I work "both sides of the fence", I see some interesting pricing, both on permit apps, and the occasional contract copy. (Resi work; NOT new)

Frankly, a few prices really caught my attention. But, alas, everyone is entitled to make a living. (?) Two (2) instances really caught my eye, and I will share some details on one......

100 amp, resi service replacement; SEU (15-20'), straps, head, connectors, and a 100 amp MCB, 16 circuit panel, 5 1 pole cb's.
Minimal distance to water main; normal grd rod conditions. Not rocket science, no special conditions, wood frame house.

The H/O (80+years old) came into the basement with his permit copy, and a receipt from the EC. I told him, I have my copy of the permit, and I don't need/want the receipt. He insisted.......$1990.00 + fees.

Long story shortened, I made 1 call. Job required 2nd rod; panel marked; branch circuits stapled per NEC, and 3 breaker blanks. (workmanship left a lot, but I can't write it up). Mentioned to the EC "a little pricey"; he said 'NA, guy's got $$$'. I reminded him that the Board has guidelines for what consumers feel is 'gouging' & read them to him. He decided to refund 900+/-

Now, that I typed all of that.....
You guys are in business for yourselves, your success or failure only depends on ONE person...YOU. Fair pricing, and FAIR competition would be an ideal world, but...

Like one of the 'old timers' told me when I was a lot younger.."you should let your reputation be your best advertisement, hell, who trusts anyone from the yeller pages??"

PS: There are a few business courses available next semester at Ocean County College, and a Middlesex County College.

John

as i have stated numerous times, none of this is my ideas. I haven't had an original thought in years.

first off, i don't blame 'contractors' i simply point out that some guys just want a job without a boss without understanding the ramifications on the industry.

I do however, take offense, and place blame on guys who publically, and incorrectly I might add, call a good segment of his fellow 'contractors' thieves. Especially in a market that he doesn't cater to and regarding a system that he doesn't understand.

Back to my credentials, I don't need them for this. These are not my ideas. I'm simply relaying them.

But folks like Frank Blau, Ellen Rohr, Maurice Maio, Randall Hilton, Tom Warner, Charlie Greer, Matt Smith, et al is where I learned all this.

I'm simply regurgetating (sp?) tried and true ideas that have been in use for years.

And actually, i wasn't blaming the media. They are in business to get ratings. Plus, I'm not against exposing crooked contractors, I'm just for showing the good as well. These shows don't. Not good ratings.

Redsy, Dnk. Good luck. Mono and Kiwi have you in their local market to deal with. I don't.

[This message has been edited by mahlere (edited 05-02-2006).]

[This message has been edited by mahlere (edited 05-02-2006).]

"the Board has guidelines for what consumers feel is 'gouging' & read them to him. He decided to refund 900+/-"

Is this the same board, that stood on a stage, and told future contractors that marking up material, more then 10% could be considered price gouging, i was there, and after that, is when i should of decided to make pizza delivery my vocation in life, i can understand you looking at the estimated cost on the permit, and then comparing it with the job, but there are times when these so calles easy jobs, can require more then the time to assemble the service, when the job begins you do a load calc, to do it right it takes time, you now have too give the utility a load data inquiry, as you know, there is the need to properly identify all circuits, and how about the 2 hour trip to pick up a meter pan, did the existing cables all fall in place, on the new panel, or did he have to shorten, or extend all the cables, each job has to be priced with all the job conditions considered, the idea, that it is a certain size service, and they should cost so much, is not only a bad idea, but one that if preformed eniough times will have you delivering pizzas.

"100 amp, resi service replacement; SEU (15-20'), straps, head, connectors, and a 100 amp MCB, 16 circuit panel, 5 1 pole cb's.
Minimal distance to water main; normal grd rod conditions."

Yes i agree, that may be a bit over!


[This message has been edited by LK (edited 05-03-2006).]

maherle,

What the heck is Mono & Kiwi?

MAn he was wishing there was another way out of that house.

actually yes, this is true (partially) if a guy does not know his true costs - and charge accordingly- he is a crook.

now maybe he's robbing the customer or worse yet, giving the customer a great deal and robbing from his family and his employees families.

While I won't defend someone gouging the elderly, I'm glad inspectors here don't get involved in my business.

Hotline1...If he had done the service for less than the cost of materials (or at labor rates below minimum wage), could we expect you to have a long conversation with the homeowner to send him another check?...of course not.

Dave

Inspectors here are not allowed to get involved with pricing. (for good reason)

"Inspectors here are not allowed to get involved with pricing. (for good reason)"

I am not worried about an inspector, getting involved, they may be able to help, when some elderly person, is in fact being gouged, it may be their only protection.

Not all elderly need help, but some do, what i try to do, is ask if they have someone in their family, that can review the work, before they sign, and work starts, i just find it, a good way of avoiding problems.

Guys:

1st, the 100 amp $$ was from the receipt/contract to HO had, & marked "paid-cash". I did NOT ask for this info, & I don't put much faith into the $$$ estimated costs on the permit app.

I never get involved with the EC's $$, nor do I say anything to the consumer.

IMHO, this HO was financially abused. Had this EC offered any type of reasonable explanation, as to the circumstances that resulted in the cost, as opposed to a crack like "the guy's got plenty of $$$", I would have left it with the listed violations.

Tiger:
Yes, I would (and have) talked to many EC's, and YES, I talk to more HO's then I really care too, and defend the EC's. I'm not the $$$ referee. This was an isolated situation.

Les:
"Gouging" is addressed within the Law Book. I believe in trying to solve (difuse) situations before they get out of hand. I left a few details out of the original post, mental & physical relating to that HO; if you are interested, call or e-mail me.

John