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1 members (Scott35),
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
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"It seems to me that if _you_ as a properly licensed EC know someone who you personally feel is a good electrician, but who is not licensed, then you _are_ being petty to sic the law on them."
So i need to follow the law, invest my life savings in a business, pay all my taxes, and then i am PETTY?
I am sure this good electrician is applying for permits on his jobs.
I am sure this good electrician, has liability coverage, workmans comp. and all the other coverages, to protect the homeowner.
Mr Petty
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 138
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The point of the contractors license is mostly accountability, a minimal level of insurance, and a minimum level of experience.
Many 'electricians' were grandfathered as licensed journeyman without exam here in Texas when licensing took place a year or so ago, regardless of ability. So a license doesn't necessarily guarantee quality or knowledge, just that they are licensed.
Bottom line is that someone (or a contractor) that is licensed now has something to loose if work is not done properly. A handyman or weekender has nothing to loose and proceeds accordingly whether consciously or subconsciously.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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festus ---
The constitution of the State of Oklahoma requires electrical work to be done in accordance with ANY nationally recognized electrical code. It allows anyone to do the work.
Most local authorities limit the work that unlicensed people may do to property they own or are tenants at.
The assumption that a license is required to do electrical work is wrong.
I am unlicensed. I apply for electrical permits as necessary. Regardless of how the local authorities act on the permit application, I do the work.
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I should say that having a law does not mean that the law is constitutional in either a state or federal sense.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 650
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LK, I apologize and retract my use of the word petty. The issue is anything but petty; this is serious with both lives and livelihoods at stake. I only used the word petty in response to the following in the post that started this thread:
My wife calls me petty and spiteful for reporting these ads, and I ask her if she is concerned if her doctor graduated medical school, has a license, and knows what he is doing.
What do you think about this?
The point that I was trying to make is that laws requiring electricians are not there as a sinecure. The licence is not there for price support, is not there to restrict competition. The licence is there to provide a legal way for you to demonstrate that you have the skills to provide safe electrical installations. My opinion is that using the licensing laws to eliminate competition is an ill use of these laws. Use them to eliminate hacks, use them to protect public safety. But it seems to me that if you interact with someone who _is_ a good electrician, but for whatever reason does not have a licence, then the first step is to figure out how to get them into the licence system. If someone is a hack, is taking money from your pocket while endangering others, then I see no problem using the licensing laws to stop them from working. I also said in context above that I suspect that non-licensed yet well qualified electricians disserving of such 'special treatment' are few and far between. I should have qualified that by limiting such to localities which require licenses, since in a region where licences are not required both the good and the bad will equally not be licensed. As I said above, anyone who has the necessary skills to be a properly qualified electrician probably also has the intelligence needed to jump through the legal licensing hoops. -Jon
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Joined: Jan 2003
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"The licence is there to provide a legal way for you to demonstrate that you have the skills to provide safe electrical installations."
Yes, that is the purpose of the Lic. for the Electrician.
The Lic. laws, were enacted, to protect the consumers, from unsafe electrical installations.
The issue i have, is if there is a law enacted in your state, that requires a Lic. , and someone wants to select which laws, they will follow, then we need protection from the law breakers.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382 Likes: 7
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Les & Winnie:
I have to jump back in.
Yes, we have 'hacks' that do elec work without a Lic., and the EC's within NJ should keep their eyes open.
I also have to add that, YES, there are some 'hacks' with the required legal documentation. I'm sorry that I have to say that, but unfortunatley, it's true.
As an AHJ & EC, the purpose of obtaining Licenses is NOT to control the market, it's to protect the consumers. Competition with individuals that have little or no overhead of business expenses is equivilent to trying to clear the sand of of a beach.
John
John
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Joined: Jan 2003
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John,
Well said !
Yes, even with Lic. contractors you run a risk of bad work, so make sure, whoever is doing the work, has applied for permits, and has the job inspected, even if you are doing the job yourself.
[This message has been edited by LK (edited 04-06-2006).]
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Joined: Apr 2006
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George, i live in Oklahoma, what city or county allows you to pull a permit without an license!The city i live in would not and does not allow unlicensed electricians to pull permits or work on any job large or small without a licensed journeyman or contractor! Also for the record i personally don't believe in the concept of the unlicensed journeyman.If you can't pass the the test then your not a journeyman.Part of being an license electrician is being able to use the most important tool in the trade the code book!
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Joined: Jan 2003
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kain10,
He may be talking about, a homeowner, doing his own work, on his property.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 40
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Again, my beef is not with non licensed electricians doing side work they pick up from word of mouth communications. They do so at their own risk and the risk of the consumer who has no legal recourse if something is done improperlly. I don't see it, and don't really care. It is not my desire to catch these people.
My complaint is when unlicensed people have the stupidity or audacity to pay for advertising space in publications and actually entrap innocent people into illegally contracting work with them. If I see an ad for electrical work, the first thing I do is check to see if they are licensed. If they are not, then the state board investigators get to earn their paychecks. This is a right to work state, and always lets the unlicensed off with a friendly warning. The ads stop real soon afterwards. I think this is fair, unlike New Jersey, where fines and felony convictions are automatic.
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