ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area getting a job while attending school??

electure - Ah, I was thinking completely different schools, thanks for the clarification.

e57 - I have about 5 years of OJT and I have also just completed a training course (classroom and hands on lab work) that went beyond what I was doing day-to-day and gave me the theory and why behind it all, along with a pretty good study of the NEC. This past Tuesday I passed my Residential Journeyman Electrician test. I have sent an email to the DAS asking about what is "apporved" training and where you can get it. I'll post a new topic when I get a response.

Steve

Scott, "such a good job"

You are being fecitious right? It would be really hard to self-censor the list, but how could I count the ways otherwise...

skingusmc, Not discounting the achievement... But the Residential Journeyman Electrician Certification alone is limiting. If you can, go back and do the General soon. IMO driving a wedge between the Commercial, and Residential markets is one of the many things wrong here. (Without mentioning names, it seems earrily familiar to another protocal, in use in my area at least... And the pitch I get from their Salesman from time to time. In fact just the other night. i.e. although the deal sounds enticing, my frequent flyer miles are not applicable, and NEVER will be.) Once, locked into the Residential side, it may not be possible to swap over without difficulty down the line...

Note the MAX allowable hours needed to accrue the required 8000 to qualify for General...

• Stock room and Material handling - 300 hours
• Residential Wiring - 3000 hours
• Commercial Wiring - 6000 hours
• Industrial Wiring - 6000 hours
• Voice Data and Video installation - 1500 hours
• Underground Conduit installation - 750 hours
• Troubleshooting and Maintenance - 1500 hours
• Finish Work and fixtures - 600 hours
• Fire/Life Safety, Nurse call - 600 hours

Not being able to do Commercial or Industrial wiring under a Residential Certification would mean you need you definately need to write down every hour you can for FLS, which may take some time in a residential envioronment. (Not that they are checking... Now, at least, but expect down the road that there will be closer scrutiny.) Anyway, my point is, that down the line it may be difficult to obtain General for those entering the trade under the Residential ticket.

Not being able to do Commercial or Industrial wiring under a Residential Certification also limits you to the market you are restricted to when times are tough. Although, General is not limited in this way... "any electrical system that is covered by the National Electric Code" Residential has a second-class citizen award with this type of crapola...

Ref: http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/290_1.html

Imagine the scenario... Your allowed to work on those floors, but not THOSE floors, in that equipment, but not THAT equipment.

IMO this concept is bogus, there should be one test... You are an Electrician or you're not, a Journeyman, or you're not...

Like I said... Not discounting the achievement... But it is my opinion on the matter...

e57 -

Actually, I agree with you completely, and in hind sight, I should have applied to take the general test. I have a fair amount of experience in commercial and light industrial areas.

I agree that there should be one test, but this is California, and nothing seems to ever be done easily or with any actaul thought.

Steve

man, the damn rules get more and more confusing as i read them. how do they regulate the hours you accumalated?

Steve, they had years to figure that out...

kojunho - "how do they regulate the hours you accumalated?"

Right now, it's the honor system..... For the most part. *
"I certify under penalty of perjury that all statements and attachments are true and correct."
http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ElectricalCertificationForm.pdf
*Although I have heard of people getting thier paperwork sent back requesting refference from thier past employers, but I havent seen that form. But for the most part they do not seem to check these at all.

For ET's it goes one step further and involves an "Optional" portion for the Employer with simular afidavids. http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ElectricianTraineeNEWRegistration.pdf

In other states with simular license to work requirements you need to log your hours and get them approved by whomever is supervising you as part of your apprenticeship. And one could expect that to be the norm as Apprenticeship and the Trainee program become the only entrance to the trade, unless you had your application in before the begining of the year for the 6 month extention. I expect scrutiny to increase soon.

(I have one ET under me, I need to find out what he's doing about that hours thing....)

would there be any point to register for the ET myself before i get employed??

Yes, and No...

You need to be applied in the very least at one of the schools, in order to apply for ET... And at least an ET to legaly work...

However, you may find a job where you might be hired as an ET and they may pay for, or at least a portion of it's cost through an association they may be a member of. Look at the list of schools and the associations sponsoring some of them, and track companies that belong to them, in fact contact those associasions themselves, they may be able to point you to someplace with a job to fill. My company is sponsoring 2 guys right now out of desparation, there may be other willing to do the same, if you can find them. Which may be hard to do until employers get really desparate. Expect desparation this summer... maybe... Too early to tell.

Or pay for all of it yourself, and find a job... It is your future and your Certification, they belong to you as your license to work. They do not belong to your employer.

Now you're right back where you started, with the chicken and the egg, finding a job in which experiance and training is nessesary, and needing experiance and training to get the job. If you are already in a program, that will be easier, and legal....

I'm just hoping you like the trade once you're in... There's a lot to know. I've been at it since 1990 and learn more all the time....

I too am an aprentice...Back home I acrued a couple thousand hours both residential and commercial. The problem was I was not getting the background (Theory...code...and all of the "why we do it this way") I wanted to be sure that when I stepped out into the field with my J. card I was ready...I wanted to make sure to be the best electrician I can be. I decided that schooling was definitely the way to go. I am now about a month into my education at Perry Technical Institute in Yakima, Washington. I highly recommend this school. I do not know how other schools work, but we are closely affiliated with L&I and in a two year class where we are only in class/ in the field for a little over 3000 hours we will acrue 4000 hours toward our aprenticeships. Like I say I don't know how other schools work but that is how mine does...Once again I have only been there for a little under a month...but I have already learned more than I ever thought I could in that amount of time.

I hope I was of at least some help...just be sure to figure out exactly what you are getting into before you put any time in anywhere.

Also I wanted to say to all of the inspectors, journeyman, and others puting input in to all of these forums, thank you. I have learned a lot just reading it all. I have my codebook right next to me and look up most all of the code references. Familiarizing myself with code and different ways of doing things at the same time.