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#62898 03/02/06 09:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
L
LK Offline
Member
Yes, New Jersey Law, you need to file an intent form when the contract is signed, and give them advanced notice of the intent, you can't file after the fact, the GC's that are planning to stiff you, will not sign the intrent form, nor will they sign your contract, so you know in advance which ones are planning not to pay.
The change they made, i belive was in the time to file the intent, good topic to check on.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 03-02-2006).]

#62899 03/03/06 11:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 349
Member
Out here I believe you need to file a "preliminary lien notice" at the start of a job, which simply notifies the owner (who does not know you or contract directly with you) that you're working on his project and you have lien rights should you not be paid. Without a preliminary notice, you loose some or all of your lien rights.

You can try to submit your invoice to the owner but he has a contract with the GC. You can also try a modification of the "stop payment notice" with the owner, even though he's financing this out of his pocket (i.e. not bank financing).

Steps you can take now:
1. Try to file a lien
2. Try submitting your invoice to the owner
3. Try a modified Stop Payment Notice with the owner

Steps for the future:
1. (Obviously) don't work for known loosers
2. Learn to front load
3. Aggressively learn and apply lien laws
4. Save a critical work task for the last step (knowing you cannot generally remove any installed material)

Ya gotta be creative to stay ahead of these guys. Good luck with this,

Radar


There are 10 types of people. Those who know binary, and those who don't.
#62900 03/03/06 11:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 44
T
Member
In Tennessee, the only person that can file a lien is the GC - and that is only for new construction. No one can file a lien for service work. To me, when a customer refuses to pay it amounts to robbery - they have robbed me of my time and they have robbed me of my materials. But with Tennessee law I can't remove the materials, I can't file a lien, and I can't call the police. My only two choices are to file suit or turn it over to a collection agency.


Kevin
#62901 03/03/06 01:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Redsy Offline OP
Member
Thanks greatly for the input guys.

Life is complicated, and it is not always as simple as not working for him. I was slow, had just hired a guy, and thought I had taken some safeguards, such as front loading the billing, and discussing our past experiences. I also had an "agreement" that he would pay me ahead of the customer. So, overall I'm not that far behind (about $1,000.00) but hey, money is money, and I want it this time.

#62902 03/03/06 02:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Member
Don't get mad get even; revenge is best taken cold. I think it is possible to repossess goods that are not paid for, legally, by obtaining a Writ of Replevin, certainly in Florida, Louisiana and Tennessee, and probably other States of the Union as well. You need a lawyer, [ of course! ], and the writ for repossession is issued by a Court.
Once you get your writ my advice would be to home-in on the Achilles heel which will be that you always replace the meter tails on every resi. job you do. Cost is peanuts, but then you can then legally cut the offenders supply of juice by ripping out your bit of neutral wire, without access to the interior as a "taster" [ and accompanied by a Sheriff, of course....]
I leave you to make up your own end game, but if someone had pulled my wire for long enough to get to this stage, they could stick their check right up their nethers. I'd take out the high $ items; [ consumer unit, breakers, luminaires, etc.,], cutting wires too short to repair but leaving them in the walls, useless, on the basis that "I must not damage others property in the retrieval of my property".
Then tell the local News media. Nothing like a bit of free publicity and a warning to others all rolled into one.


Alan

reference:
http://www.thelienzone.com/Florida_Construction_Law_Replevin.htm


Wood work but can't!
#62903 03/03/06 05:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
T
Member
A lien is certainly not a lawsuit. It is a notice of non-payment for real estate improvemens; an issue that is headed for the courthouse very shortly.

You cannot take a lien to the bank and force payment. You need a writ from the court to do that. That took a lawsuit and a trial. Such trials are incredibly brief in small claims. The outcomes are virtually automatic success to the plaintiff: the tradesman.

Liens work wonders when the building is financed by a construction loan, or a take out loan will occur upon completion. Banks will insist on the payment being made even before going to the courthouse. It's in their loan contract everytime. The financing stops and the bank begins foreclosure proceedings rather quickly.

Just because lien law is not applied to service work means nothing. In service work, there'll be no bank financing to use as a club. So the lien will ALWAYS end up in court. That's why the law doesn't allow liens for such maters. You just go straight to step 2: I'll be seeing you in court.

You guys are not filing enough lawsuits in small claims court. To do so is cheap. The GC has essentially no defense. Losing a couple of such cases, in my state, suspends or destroys GC's contractor's license. That's not a hammer: it's a jackhammer.

The essence of a licensed GC is he can't be a deadbeat and keep his license. You are letting these jerks get away with jamming you; when you'll automatically win when you get to court.

By the way, it's not cheap for the GC to go to court, either. Don't be surprised that your case gets settled right on the courthouse steps. Drive by the court house sometime. Somebody's always haggling on the steps.

Unpaid judgements are entered into the public record and will quite literally destroy his business.

If you gang up with two other tradesmen... combining unpaid judgements... you can intitiate a bankruptcy petition for him without his consent.

His company will be on the Federal books in bankruptcy court so fast he can't believe it. You serve him notice, just like a lawsuit, and see him in Federal Court. This would be extreme, but it is how you run a deadbeat out on a rail.

Long before the court weighs in on the matter, Mr. Deadbeat is dead. That chapter 7 petition will stay on his credit file for at least 10 years.

All that you have to do is fight back in court. You'll win, and win without an attorney. All that you have to say is:
I'm a licensed contractor... proof.
I subbed with Mr. Deadbeat, also licensed...proof.
I've received partial payments... proof.
He is tardy on the final payment without contract justification... proof.
I therefore seek judgement for $$$$ plus court costs, fees as per the contract...

Evidence: the billings, the written contract.

An oral contract will be just as binding... but will necessarily cause the GC to counter argue.

As an electrician, the signed off inspections, permits and proper running order of your work are killer evidence. Mr. Deadbeat doesn't have a leg to stand on.

That's how the case goes down in court. And Mr. Deadbeat knows it. I would be stunned if Mr. Deadbeat even stands in front of the judge. You'll get your money on the courthouse steps. Losing such lawsuits destroys his business.

His own legal fees are going to make any negotiated cram-down a loser for him.

STOP LETTING THESE CLOWNS RUN YOU. Go to court, you'll win.

P.S. I know of one EC who has sued so many that he could become a trial lawyer. Why... because that's how he kept his profits and made his business work. Current net worth... easily $50,000,000.


Tesla
#62904 03/03/06 07:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 2
Cat Servant
Member
I'm a contractor, an electrician...if I wanted to spend my days in court, I would have chosen another line of work.

The area of liens is one that varies greatly btate by state. Just as you would not ask your accountant for electrical advice....

In several places, the "Good book" tells us to avoid court at all costs- once in front of the judge, all bets are off! (Many of these remarks are in a part called 'wisdom' for some reason.)

The best way to solve the problem is to avoid it. The primary way of avoiding it is to know your customer. A zebra isn't going to change his stripes for you!
One of the ironies of working in Nevada is that you quickly find better ethics (regarding payment, anyways) in Brothels than Churches. "Brother Love's Travelling Salvation Show" ought to be ashamed.

I still, ocasionally, get a call from a customer who once stiffed me for $600. My answer is the same each time:
"I'd love to have the work- after you pay me for the last job!"

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