ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Poll: Manual or Auto??

"We waited a hundred years or more for the automatic to be realized, and this question is still out there" -Click and Clack The Tap it Bros.

I live in a city of big steep hills with stop lights at the top of every one, I have no choice but auto. I lost a clutch on a 2-ton truck on Gough st (A truck/stick drivers nightmare*), and had to get the cops to back me down it during rush hour traffic - never again!

*Simular street on same hill a few blocks away used as a ski-jump!


{ Edited for image link - Paul }

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 02-17-2006).]

" but for small european cars up to 1.5 litres, IMHP, they are hopeless."

Alan, as a Mercedes diesel enthusiast that reminds me of the joke about the old 240 diesels that were imported with automatics. You had to keep a pair of binoculars on the passenger seat to check for a gap in traffic big enough for you to pull out.

I fondly remember the stick days. My Olds had the 3 on the tree Saginaw. It would stick in 3rd if you didn't go completely up into the neutral gate before pulling to go down into 1st. I would have to kill the engine, set the brake, and get under the hood to pull up on the linkage on the steering column. Another time, my clutch pivot broke and I had to shift without it and was fine until the red light. Then I put in a wide ratio Muncie 4 speed and a Hurst shifter. The Muncie had a bad 4th gear synchro and would kick into neutral if I backed off without holding it in.
The winter driving is where they really shine though. Back then, before the traction control systems and ABS, the precise control of power to the rear wheels could really save the day.
But now I live in Chicago and this city never needs an excuse for a traffic jam. It gets pretty old to spend 75% of your time holding the clutch in. So my last 2 cars have been automatics.
My funniest memory of a manual is from college days when I had been driving my Olds with the mechanical linkage and racing clutch. I got into my brother's 240Z with the hydraulic clutch. I thought my left foot was going to go through the floor the first time I hit the clutch. My best friend used to challenge me to get my car started w/o the starter on all but the most level lots. If I could get the car to roll at all, I could get it to start by easing out the clutch in 2nd gear. That came in handy a couple of times.
As pilots, examiners can ask us to demonstrate competent use of any equipment on the airplane. I think it is a good idea for cars too. Any new driver I work with will have brought a car to a complete stop with both their parking brake and engine/tranny with a stick. I've never asked anyone to slam an auto into park though. They'll also learn how to shift without a clutch except from a stop.
As for distractions causing accidents or near misses, it was an open ice tea container tipping over that almost caused me to run into my cousin's car. He wondered why I stopped about an inch behind him. In the airplane, tuning more than 2 dials on the transponder between instrument scans, just about guaranteed a slow right turn. Destractions can come from anywhere.
Joe

Manuals anytime. I have to entirely agree with Trumpy.
You have much better control of the vehicle especially in hilly counties like New Zealand.
On long descents you always smell the overheated brakes from people with automatics who leave the shifter in drive all the time instead of changing down to 2nd.
Our fire trucks are automatic unfortunately, but give me a 12 speed Dodge anytime, much more joy out of double clutching a manual gearbox.
Cellphones, no excuse. Use a car kit.

Ahh yes, shifting without the clutch! I have had to do that when my friend's Jeep had clutch problems... Stopping meant stalling the engine, starts were made in gear.. I got it to the mechanic's though..

I also live in a city that is right on the Niagara Escarpment.. there are major roads that go up and down this escarpment and when I am decending these "mountain accesses" as they call them I always drop my automatic down to "2" or even "1" depending on where it is and speed limit.... Never have to touch the brakes at all really on the way down..

RODALCO


Interestingly the recent studies are showing that hands free are no better than hands on phone as far as distraction.

Greg


Wow.. that has been my thought as well.

We expect a lot from our police and they more than any driver are exposed to information overload.

I have owned both . I learned to drive a stick with a chevy nova with the 3 on the tree set up. now I have automatics. When I bought my pick up I noticed that the tow rating was higher for the automatic. Gas mileage was no different. I just got tired of the stop and go in slow traffic. plus all the idiots who insist on stopping inches from the rear bumper.

I think anyoner with an AMC era Jeep has driven without a clutch a time or two. It was cable actuated and the clevis used to break. I probably still have a couple in my tool box. I could replace it in the dark in a couple minutes. I finally gave up on the factory part and had a buddy in a machine shop make me one from a solid block of steel. That one ain't gonna break.
Other guys I knew swapped the whole mess out for a "juice" clutch kit.
I also managed to get a Mustang II home from downtown DC without a shifter. I jammed it in second until I got it out of town and them managed to get it in 3d for the rest of the trip. I only had to run one red light. :-)
This was through the top of the tranny, shifting directly on the forks with a screwdriver and vice grips.
That tranny had a shaft that came out the back for shifting, similar to an old bug.

My afore-mentioned Corvair also had a cable-operated clutch, and I did the start-in-first-gear-and-shift-without-the-clutch dance, too.

My repair was to attach a large cotter pin to the cable end, using the eye, and bend the tips back to create a W-shaped cable end.

I don't see a problem with automatics on hills, if people use the manual low-gear lockouts, and don't forget that there are positions beyond "D" and just ride the brakes all the way down instead.

Regarding column-mount versus floor shift (whether manual or auto), British cars have tended to favor the floor position much more than American in the past. Column shifters pretty much disappeared completely here by the end of the 1960s, and even those were typically only on certain larger models (Ford Zephyr, Zodiac, etc.).

It's quite amusing to see the young-uns look at American vehicles if they've never seen them before and look puzzled over the column lever and nothing on the floor! That's not to mention under-dash parking brakes which they seem to find highly amusing. They've never known anything but the modern centrally mounted brake lever between the seats.