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#57972 10/28/05 06:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382
Likes: 7
Member
Greg/Harold:
Yes, electric heat has been said to be the most efficient, and yes, it can be energy efficient if the user understands the operation.

I have gas fired hot air, and use elec for 'spot' heating as you said.

As to heating a whole house, the 'user' has to be the decision maker as to the actual conrol of each area/zone.

Harold, I did a house a while back with 14 zones, gas fired hot water BB and radiant in some floors. Nice job, but it had to be $$$$

Depending on the expected increases in nat. gas/propane, and heaing oil, exact cost differences will be a 'best guess'

Pack-in insulation!!!
John


John
#57973 10/29/05 07:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 300
M
Member
I live in NJ in a rural area where there is no gas available. I've got oil heat. For what I'm paying for 250 gallons this winter, Electric doesn't look quite so bad.

I will probably never want electric resistance heat but we get cold enough here that heat pumps can't work during much of the winter and that means I'm forced to go with Oil. I just would like there to be options.

#57974 10/29/05 08:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840
C
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Electricity doesn't have to be so natural gas dependent. We put millions of tons of a potential fuel source in landfills every day. But I guess I'm biased, here in Connecticut we burn 65% of our solid waste for waste-to-energy, the highest percentage in the country. Electricity is still expensive but it's a small step in the right direction.
Either we must cut demand or find other ways to generate power, or both. I vote for waste-to energy incinerators.

-Peter


Peter
#57975 10/29/05 10:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 449
F
Member
A lot of folks in central Indiana are scrambling for baseboard heaters. Electricity here is cheap at .08-.09 per kwh. My supply house is one of 12 in a regional chain and they are selling 8' BBs like hotcakes. 97 went out the Indy branch this month alone. I heat with LP and paid $1.19 per gal in August on a summer fill-up program. 1000 gal tank will take me to April. LP is now at $2.47 and expected to go above$3.50. A lot of folks are suplementing their LP/Natural gas systems with baseboard electric.

#57976 10/30/05 12:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931
Likes: 34
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I agree with Peter, waste to energy is probably the most attractive option. It is probably the most effecient "recycling" scheme out there other than aluminum cans.


Greg Fretwell
#57977 10/31/05 04:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Member
The main aim has to be to reduce our consumption of energy. Not only is this good for the Planet, it's good for the Wallet, and makes us less reliant on unpalatable regimes, (which we don't talk about here).
Insulate your home as much as possible, because that shows the fastest payback. The main target is the roof. Even sub-tropical locations benefit from thermo-reflective foil insulation, as this cuts aircon costs.
Get the house as airtight as possible, with seals on doors, windows and other leak-sources, ( ie receptacles!), as this makes a considerable saving by reducing draughts ( drafts?). Don't forget to ventilate the house, though, as good sealing can cause condensation problems. I'm fitting forced ventilation on my remodel, using a heat exchanger to reduce venting costs.
It's difficult to insulate walls and floors effectively without remodelling, but double-glazing is a reasonable payback option if you choose the right product.
Lifestyle is important too. Get the family into the routine of turning off unwanted appliances and lamps. Personally, I 'dumped' the energy saving bulbs as their cost eliminated any payback. A lot of my aquaintances turn on every tv in the house and the computer as they get up in the morning, and most times no-one is using them. Turn them off- they suck juice even on 'standby'. Turn the 'stats down. A degree or two will be unnoticable, but will lop 10% off your utility bills. Fit IR devices on outside lights. Turn rads down or off / operate dampers, in unused rooms.
As to choice of system, the best payback in these times of high fuel prices has to be a 'heat pump'. Even in the colder parts of the world, heat is available for free down in the earth, typically you 'pay' for about 25% of your demand, the rest is free.
Heatpump souces are, in order of capital cost cheapness;-
Air to Air/ Air to water. Heat is extracted from the outside air and is exhausted chilled. These systems can adapt to existing systems, replacing your boiler, but often have an electric resistance heater for very cold periods, reducing payback.
Earth to system. Heat is extracted from the earth, either from a system of anti-freeze filled pipes laid in the garden or yard, or from a source such as a lake or river, or from a bore-hole. Bore holes can go 300 ft. deep, and I even found an American company selling a small gas-engined drilling rig on the net for weekend warriors! http://www.deeprock.com
Anywhere in the US and France, ( not sure about UK), no permit is required to bore on your own property, and you only need a couple of sq. ft. of yard. Again, the heat can be used with either air or water heating systems.
Since I had already got a nearly new oil burner-boiler, I have opted to retain it and concentrate on cutting the losses, with 8" minimum glasswool, triple glazing, etc.
If you compare energy costs, remember that electricity is 100% efficient, so even with resistance heaters it can be economic if you insulate to a high standard. Using off-peak tarifs helps too; Denise uses timeclocks to run the dishwasher and washing machine at night. We have 2 hours cheapo-electric at midday too, which helps.

Alan

ps. If you live in a city, please try not to drill through a subway or Metro system!

[This message has been edited by Alan Belson (edited 10-31-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Alan Belson (edited 10-31-2005).]


Wood work but can't!
#57978 11/01/05 12:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
Member
Quote
Honestly, nothing can stop work after the zoning/permit/inspections/approvals/CO. I 'see' this happening, not a lot.....but

Hey John, yep it's been a while!

It certainly happens a lot around here. People just refuse to hand over exorbitant amounts of money to the local bureaucrats to do something which has almost zero likelihood of ever coming to their attention.

Quote
As mentioned further above, electric rates of around 13 cents/ kilowatt hour will pretty much stop everyone from even considering doing this.

That's about what we're paying in England on average at the moment (although on our "Economy 7" tariff we can get power at about half the normal rate for 7 hours each night)

It always used to be the case that electric heat was the cheapest to install but the most expensive to run. We've just seen news reports about heating oil having doubled in price over the last two years though, so how much longer that's likely to hold true remains to be seen.


Quote
A CO..which requires heat.
For that matter, the plans would NEVER even be approved w/o sufficient heat plans.

Hadn't thought of that. So far as I'm aware there is no requirement to include heating in plans for a new house here at all. I can't imagine anyone building a home these days without including it, but that's another matter.




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 11-01-2005).]

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