ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area QUERY!

The fact that this is even a discussion illustrates how the lawyers have ruined this country. Ridiculous.

... These are the greatest... I have a few kits on each truck,and if you break one,you can order that one tap..it's ingenious!!



They're made by Greenlee..they drill and tap in one shot!!



[This message has been edited by Attic Rat (edited 10-31-2005).]

Hello Electricmanscott,
Indeed, you are so very correct. Lawsuits arise today over the most petty of circumstances. However, discussions such as this are not truly ridiculous because if an electrical contractor and/or individual electrician ever becomes the defendant in such a lawsuit (however spurious the grounds) it then becomes a very serious and expensive matter. So, having an accurate knowledge of such issues can serve as a guide and protection. This is one of the benefits of this forum.
The most definitive answer to date comes from an e-mail sent to me from a Senior Customer Service Engineer(Lighting)with Underwriters Laboratories. He states:

"The length of the screws packaged with the luminaire takes into account that there are installations that involve different spacings between the luminaire and the junction box. Also, it permits the manufacturer to use one set of screws for many different luminaire models, thereby reducing their inventory. The clause in UL 1598 that addresses the length of luminaire mounting screws is 10.2.1. It specifies that the length of the screw has to be at least 1/2 in. longer than the distances between the mounting surface and the luminaire surface with the screw hole.

You have elected to replace those screws with shorter screws of the same diameter and thread pitch. The use of those shorter screws that protrude past the other side of the threaded hole by at least 1/4 inch are sufficient to secure the luminaire. This does not void the UL Listing.

Very best regards,"

<end>

[This message has been edited by shockmaster21 (edited 10-31-2005).]

Me too:


[This message has been edited by hurk27 (edited 11-02-2005).]

Shockmaster, I agree with your point but it is a sad comentary on our society that before we do anything there has to be any thought as to lawsuits etc. I refuse to live that way.

Secondly at what point did UL become the king and queen of our world? The fact that they approve the garbage screws that come with fixtures makes me wonder a little bit about their credibility. What is getting by them on real issues?

I like to think that I am smart enough to figure out if a screw is safe to use or not. I don't need or want my hand held by some lab coat wearing geeks who don't have to deal with real world situations. If a person can't figure out what screw to use that person has no business hanging a fixture.

This takes us back to our sad society. Used to be a thing called "personal responsibility". That is a only a memory now as people are always looking for someone to blame. Thanks liberals.

shockmaster21

What do you do when they send extra parts?

Is it a violation to throw them out?

I thought 110.3(B) made it clear that we only have to follow the instructions with listed equipment?

$70M a day seems a bit high... that number would require in the neighborhood of a million visitors each day, which doesn't seem plausible.

$70 a day?

You haven't been to Orlando recently.
I bet $250-300 a day is a better number.
It is hard to spend a day at Disney for <$100 a head.
That $70m is the total tourist related income, not just park admission.
Add rental cars, hotels, resturants and other tourist traps to the list and you are talking serious bucks.

They have a UL exhibit in Epcot where they show how they test TV screens. Using a ball bearing attached to a rope, they swing it into the CRT, if it breaks it doesn't pass(I assume anyway). What I find interesting is, they show lab techs in their nice white coats and safety shields over their faces. But what happens when a CRT explodes,Isn't mercury released into the room?? Why are CRTs considered Universal waste now and not allowed in regular trash if its ok to just smash them?

As far as the 70 million a day is concerned, I ate at Rainforest cafe(at Animal Kindom) for lunch, 3 of us, couple of beers, 132 bucks before tip BTW the place was packed. I also ate at Emerils, Citywalk. 129 bucks for 3 of us but that was worth every penney .(anyone ever have a beer from Belgium called S(C)himmy??? Awesome) There are 100,000 hotel rooms in Orlando area, second only to Las Vegas. 70 million is a figure I either read in Orlando Sentinel or heard on local news. They opened the parks at 2pm the day Wilma went thru and Sea World was open while Wilma was in area and Tornados were developing all over the place.

The tube can break, it just can't IMPLODE. As long as glass doesn't go flying out at the viewer, it passes the test.


There is no mercury in a CRT...


The faceplate glass contains a lot of lead, for protection against X-ray emission. If crushed in a landfill, some portion of that lead leaches out into the groundwater.

[This message has been edited by NJwirenut (edited 11-02-2005).]