ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area California Certification

Electure's post is non negotiable.

I ask that we all abide by the rules.

As Electure says, there are places and areas these issues can be discussed but not on the forums.

Thank you

Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 09-27-2005).]

Oh, the "fuzzy math" thing...

If you're talking about the rise in C-10 license application, it did go up. No you're right, I did only track C-10's, I should have tracked all licenses.... Next time I'll get get ALL of the numbers, and see if we can "un-fuzzy" the numbers, would that be OK?

Or was it the super-double-secret certified guys, and out of state army of electricians storming the Nevada and Oregon border conspiracy? I told you, I got that directly from an angry guy who happened to be pulling my leg....

Either way, numbers at this point are subjective...

However, I would like to participate in the "Postponement Pool", if Gambling were allowed.

I agree...we are all professionals, and we should act as such. There are other places where one can spout heated rhetoric, if your heart needs a pressure boost!

I am not in California. Nor am I associated in any way with any union. Nor did the non-union apprentice programs see fit to allow me into their hallowed halls. Nor would anyone recognise my very real work experience.
Thankfully, most of those hurdles are behind me now.

My point is- it is too easy to find a job, get valuable, in-depth training.....and find out when you leave that you have no way to quantify that training to future employers. You leave the job with only your hat in your hand!

Certain trade unions -IBEW being in the forefront- got the ball rolling in the right direction, with the development of a formal apprentice program, standard training- and a journeyman card at the end. Now the working stiff had something to back up his claims!

I see the California certification as a step in the right direction as well. While I am sure that it will not be perfect, it will provide a way to document your qualifications.

After all, we've all known charming BS artists who claimed to have built the space shuttle, with duct tape and a Swiss knife! I even seem to recall hearing of a senior government official who had a fancier resume than life!

California has no hold over me- but I just might pony up the $$$ for the benefit of a credential like that; Nevada has no state regulation of electricians.

We put as much effort into out training as any doctor, lawyer, or engineer. Unfortunatly, too many of us have nothing to hang on the wall for it. There are even "degreed professional only" clubs that consider us as little more than gutter scum. There is a place for a piece of paper we can all point to and say "I earned it- and you wouldn't make the grade!"

Mark (e57), I laud your restraint
The thing that wasn't factored into your earlier equation? Not everyone applied for contractors licenses in order to circumvent the certification program. I'll bet some of them applied for the same reason as you and I did when we got ours.....to contract!!

I think I've finally learned that if something sounds too good to be true, it is. This started out as an ideal, and ended up as a mess.
As to the "Postponement Pool", the odds of guessing correctly are too bad to get my bet. (maybe there's a Ouija Board somewhere they've used as a tool for decision making.)

Reno, you make some great points there, and I totaly agree!

The main reason, I even have issue with this law is that it is not an "Electrician, or Journeyman Law", it is an "Apprenticeship" law. After this gets inforced, (when-ever that is?) It will limit or restrict entry to the trade. The currently established apprenticeship programs can not deal with the current levels of demand in the trade. (For instance, Local 6 here in SF takes in 100 every other year or so, but the line to apply is well over 1000! Some years they don't take anyone. It could take years to get in, if you were willing to wait.) And the demand for apprentices, and journeyman labor far outstrips what they can deliver here. There are, for the time being, other Apprenticeship Programs, but there is this "Other" quirky law in the Labor Code.

That section of law goes on to say, that addition progams could be allowed, if demand is present... If the chief of that area, in the DAS deems it nessesary. Its like dealing with a NEC code that is vague, and subject to interpitation. The DAS just doesn't see the demand... (Or want to see it.) In fact they have closed some programs down, while they go forward with the certification law.

And seeing that the company I work for wouldn't be able to draw apprentices from the JATC. The nearest "Geographical location" we could draw from is about 80 miles away, and they can't satisfy the demand either!

Anyway, my point is, after it goes through, it will be even harder to get labor than it is now. And restrict even further the flow of people into the trade, where it is already hard to attract them in the first place. It's not good buisiness sense.

I just don't think appenticeship needs to be institutionalized. Especially if those institutions can't handle the demand.

Sorry Electrure, you posted while I was in find-law....

Ouija board is about the ticket.

Post dinner edit....
The pool could work, you could buy-in parts of years as a block....

As for the numbers, I'm going to get some more. The thing about people going for licenses vs. certification is that I have heard from people following, or looking to follow that path. Presisely for the reason that started this post, sub-contracting... And it wasn't like a 5% growth factor, it rose about 30% over 3 years starting 2001. One of the many years this was to start. But you are right, I should've gotten all of them. If C-10 were out of line with the rest, or out of scale with with growth of the rest, it might light the picture better on either way. It is funny that about the same amount of people got licenses as got certified in the same period. Not that it means anything, just funny.



[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 09-27-2005).]

Your labor affiliation nor your completion of an apprenticeship has NEVER been an indicator to me of Code knoweldge. Of course I only see a small percentage of electricians in the state as a city inspector.

The knowledgeable electricians who post here shows me it does not have to be this way.


I too also believe the certification program is a great thing and a benefit to participants, employers and customers.

Unfortunately it is not managed well. Wow, I was pretty nice to the DAS this time.

Even with good management of the program, the benefits would not be reaped for years.

After reading this debate here for the past however-many years it's been going on, I can only come up with one solution to solve the beaurocratic mess: California needs to be broken up into 3 or more states.

Laugh if you want, but I'm serious about that. It's out of control. I agree that a certification process is a great thing. But when the monster gets so large that it can't be tamed anymore, it's time to think outside the box.

Peter

Actually, the splitting of the state in two has been tossed around.

Nothing will ever come of it, I think.

Politicians are not interested in the good of the people.

The San Andreas fault is the logical line for this split, so that the borders wouldn't have to be redefined later.