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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 706
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People react differently in these terrible situations. Some are criminals and some are heros. The size of the disaster make it difficult for the rescue workers. Hats off to those making the effort.
Dave
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 456
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The biggest thing they can do is to be sure everything gets build back to current code. Use the Florida wind code. Don't forget flood codes also. Or radically, abandon the lower parts of NO, for higher ground.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
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Scott,
Your statement was not looked upon as politically motivated, it was a fact that response was slow, for a storm that we were all told was going to be a bad one.
Lets give credit to those in our federal goverment, that did an excellant job, the weather agency, that went out on the limb and warned us of possible desaster, the US Coast Guard, for a job, that streched their limits, they deserve a big thank you, and every other agency that was prepared to react but had limited information due to loss of communications.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 155
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gfretwell,
Volunteer FDs are for the most part great organizations staffed by well-trained and dedicated people.
However, the VFDs do have the deck stacked against them in a number of ways given that they have adequate training and equipment:
1) How is a fire reported? It is not all that unusual that a fire is well on the way before it is seen and even reported.
2) Once reported the volunteer most drive to the firehouse as someone must get the equipment.
3) Then drive to the fire which is already well on the way.
4) Most often they only have water that is carried with them one the trucks, no fire hydrants.
Now, as far as water pressure is concerned the common Pumper/tanker will carry anywhere from 750-1500 gallons of water, some maybe a bit more, each capable of putting out 125# of pressure. Each 1-1/2" line will put our 100gpm @ 125psi> if you do the math you will have a good idea how long 1000gal will last.
Then there are tankers that may hold 2500gal and more but that will only last so long. Add fold-a-tanks for on site water storage (like a portable swimming pool) and combine that with mutual aid from fellow vfds \who can bring and run back and forth for additional water and a vfd can be put up against the best full time departments.
Common city water pressure is 60psi so city FDs us their pumpers to increase the pressure. Also remember that water mains do have a limit of how much water they can supply also. The question them is how many GPM can be drawn form a fire hydrant before the pressure of the water main starts to drop below 60psi.
But, again, the biggest handicap is reporting the fire promptly which the city departments have an advantage along with already being at the station. Remember that a 4-min. response for a full time department is often considered good. The, home long does it taker a volunteer to get to the firehouse?
Taking all this into consideration FVDs do a darned good job but there are those that like to take pokes at them.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
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JTF Katrina is on the way now: http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/849F09A90BC424168525706F0065DE72?opendocument As for the delay in responce... All can be put aside because they KNEW that this was threat. For a long time! They have been talking about this for over 50 years. The guy in charge of the Army Corps of Engineers said this was not a surprise. I have been to NOLA many times, and it is often a point of general conversation for people who live there. They have also known that there was no real way to evacuate that city if, and it did happen. What to do about it? Built the storm walls at the water line, where it is now. History repeats itself. Mother nature has claimed eminant domain. Relocate the affected population.
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,381 Likes: 7
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Guys:
AS one who lives on the Jersey Shore (Lagoon), in a Twp with a great vol. FD, FA Squad, I have to say that they all do a great job, and a lot of peoples hats are off to them, always.
As to the TV coverage I saw, I have to say... the USCG and the Armed Forces guys that were dangling from 'copters, chopping thru roofs, and whatever else they did/do really deserve credit. I know, when I'm out & about on my boat, and the USCG choppers or patrol boats go by, I feel good, even though I am not in any situation that I need them.
The politics of complaining is part of the american way, and one of the rights that we all enjoy in this country.
YES; we have 'problems', but IMHO, this is still the place I want to live.
Yes, there's a bad situation that unfortunatley developed, and a lot of back seat quarterbacks, and a lot that could have been done differently, but?????
Red Cross is looking for help, along with a lot of other REAL organizations; also the scammers started, probably as Katrina was 100 miles off the coast. I posted other comments in the other thread regarding the looting thing if anyone cares to read it.
John
John
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 812
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I don't believe my original post was too political, so I'm doing a copy 'n paste.
My family and I are giving $20-$30 to the Red-Cross via my school tomorrow or next week. I can't believe all the devastation down there. I'm glad to see Bush is already reacting to this disaster. I can't blame people for stealing food, but 46" TVs and new computers, NO! Why steal electronics when they're probably worthless by now after being under one or two rounds of water? I saw a story on the local news of a person who looted an electronics store, and wanted to know if he could bring his new HDTV and computer onto the bus he was taking out of town. It is going to take a long time to rebuild New Orleans, but IMO, they shouldn't rebuild it until they can fix the elevation problem.
My 2cents worth
Ian A.
Is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 44
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I heard A Long time ago that New Orleans sinks at a rate of one inch every year. Is that true? If so, Why on earth would you rebuild the part of the city that is sinking?? When New Orleans was founded I'm sure they didn't build the Leveys and drain the area...
It's Not The Fall That Kills You...
It's That Sudden Stop At The End
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445 Likes: 3
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Guys, I have some strong things to say, but I PROMISE ia am not making any kind of 'political' statement.
We all feel pain when the innocent suffer. That's what makes us human.
Katrina is a shock for several reasons. In even the worst disasters, we in the US are accustomed to seeing a handful of deaths- not thousands, like is so typical in the "Third World."
Every year, we have several hurricanes- and every one is accompanied by "end of the world" predictions. So we become numb, and can't tell a "real" warning from a "pro forma" one.
Most of us rely upon our local resources for most things- not some power far away. Homestead Florida did a fine job of banding together when the crunch hit- so the degerneration of the Gulf area into a soggy Somalia is especially distressing.
New Orleans has given several signs over the years of being dysfunctional. Certainly, none of the risks were unique....you don't live along one of the world's largest rivers, and along a hurricane coast, and next to a levee without at least once saying "this can't be good." Every year the Mississippi sends millions of tons of dirt into the gulf- by now, New Orleans should have been atop a hill- not below sea level!
Beyond the local crisis, we all are paying for our ignoring other warnings. Two summers ago, the entire energy market was poleaxed by some refinery problems in California- and Enron capitalising on them. One neither drills wells nor builds refineries overnight- but, had we listened then, we wouldn't be getting hosed by this disaster. Really makes me want to hug a bunny!
I also recall how, countless times, we have pitched in to help the rest of the world. So who has offered to help us this time? Where are the UN resolutions? Where are THEIR aircraft carriers, sent to deploy aid?
What happened to 'self reliance' and 'keeping a stiff upper lip?' How can we hear cries of 'no water' when they're neck deep in the stuff? What do they want= Perrier? No food? Hate to say this, but a week without food isn't so bad- so what's with the complaining five minutes after the rain stopped? No power- heck, even the "Robber Barons" had to make do without electricity!
As for the media- their continual harping on the negative only feeds the despair of the injured. Don't just stand there, surrounded by your private army, pontificating how 'this or that' should have been....tell us how we're all busting our tails to clean this up.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 706
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I'm really shocked by your post. They can't drink the water that they are neck deep. It is a swamp of sewage, chemicals and death.
Many of them have lost family and friends. They are homeless and have lost the support of their church and community. As well as food, they are without their medicine.
With a little patience I think we'll see the support of the world to help us in this crisis.
Dave
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Posts: 2,236
Joined: November 2000
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