ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Working out communication with Contractors and Engineers

How about a shortened pathway for electricians to become electrical engineers? Putting the tools away and attending university fulltime for 4 or more years isn't an option for most of us working people. Makes just as much sense as putting the engineer through a reduced-length apprenticeship IMO.

I don't think 'journeyman' should be the end of the road.

Sorry this thread got my goat.... Started looking up searches on related... Found this string of gems on another forum.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=99415&page=3 (See thread for context.)



[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 05-15-2005).]

"The trade skills are not necessarily a subset of the engineering skills."

For engineering positions in many industries, such as petro chemical, mining, and large electrical contracting firms, they are a required subset of skills, and they are not a rare breed at all, over the years most of these engineers, have moved into upper management positions.

Many electricians, go back to school and finish a degree program in engineering.

With our declining manufacturing base, more companies are looking for the employees that are dual trained, this trend is nothing new, the services have been doing this for years, with good results.


[This message has been edited by LK (edited 05-15-2005).]

Some of my experience of being an electrical engineer "systems archetect" for video intergrated circuits can be used for discussion here. In my world, I specify the overall structure of the functions of this intergrated circuit, but I leave it to specialists to design and build the actual silicon circuits of that intergrated circuit. This would be somewhat similar to my designing say a house. "I want the kitchen here, the dining room next to it here, bedrooms at the other end here, etc". And some details like, "I'd like 4 counter circuits in the kitchen, and this bedroom here will be my ham radio room and I'll need a 240V 15A outlet to power my transmitter in there." But leave it to the EC to take care of the detailed design of the electrical system per NEC but saying "use wire one step thicker than what the NEC says". I'd avoid "but that's not code, can't do it" type problems. I'd say what I want to be able to do and let the EC make it happen.

THus the lack of detail you see from engineers is partly the deligation of that task to the EC and partly to avoid arguements over code complience problems. "The kitchen is to have 2 fridges and a freezer, just make the appropriate electrical happen to code". Code things like the max number of breakers in a panel engineers are not likely to know about, thus they leave it to the electricians to figure out how to orginize the system to be code.

The PE is responsable for the design, the EC installs as designed, and in most cases, there are few problems, any good engineering firm has qualified engineers, that are well aware of code requirements, most of the problems come from poor communications with those working in the field.

wa2ise,
If "delegation" is part of the reason for lack of detail from engineers, maybe you can elaborate on what some of the other reasons would be. It does not explain the multitude of omissions and outright mistakes that I have come across on plans. Quote: "The kitchen is to have two fridges and a freezer, just make the appropriate electrical happen to code". So it is now the electricians responsibility to figure out specs., locations etc. of this equipment? From my perspective delegation often looks alot like passing the buck. By the way I think electrical engineers should know about little details like the max. number of breakers allowed in a panel.

Interesting point by E57 on the loss of trade skills- many of which are caused by modern technology- parts previously made on site by an artisan are now churned out in plastic by a factory. BTW: The Coliseum in Rome was made of CONCRETE - that's why it's still there; the locals couldn't rob the stone out to build houses.

Yes, e57 feels like a lot of us, back to the pure craft, and he brings out a good point on how the engineers have been churned out.