ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Ungrounded outlets

Roger

I'm playing the devil's advocate (with the definition of "grounded" here. The original comment said he had an ungrounded box. My comment was to question weather he had an ungrounded box or an installation fault that needed to be fixed. If "ungrounded" is defined as having been originally built without a ground that's one thing. If "ungrounded" is defined as 'the ground no longer exists, (regardless of the cause or reason)' that's something else. The second definition tells me that when we mess up and break off the ground (too short to use) we merely treat it as ungrounded. The first definition tells me I have to fix the damaged wire and re-establish the ground within the box. Again...just being the devil's advocate here; not arguing with people's comments.

Larry, that's pretty much the way I read it.

I don't know if contradicting 406.3(D) was really the intent of 250.114, but with out an exception in this article, I don't see how we can ignor the requirements for the specified appliances.

I know it trims what 406.3(D)can do.

Steve, I think I see what you're saying.

Roger

Sandsnow: a few years back I ran into that with a guy who had a monsterous aquarium set up. All his pumps were grounded and his old house was 2wire "ragwire". No grounds available anyplace. We got called to convert his receps to grounded and eliminate his plug in adapters. We thought about going the GFI route but decided to call the AHJ for an opioion (due to the aquariums being listed in 250-114). AHJ said no way. Our saving grace was that this room was above the unfinished basement. We just pulled new ckts and left the old stuff as is.

As an AHJ we have not had to deal with this issue since our city is so new we have no homes wired with two wire.

In reading the def. of grounded it states connected to earth or some conducting body that serves in place of earth. So maybe the intent is that the contact of the grounding recep when supplied through a GFCI is the conducting body that is serving in place of earth????

I think the intent of the code is that it can only be made safe by being GFCI protected.

Dave