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#46971 01/07/05 06:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 55
E
Member
These panels make for a clean install, and if the componets are installed properly it makes for easy troubleshooting. And they are very simple to add onto. Maybe if some one does not know how they all work together, they might not like them.

I would like to know how the MASTER would install the phone, CATV, multi-room sound and high speed internet in every room.

#46972 01/07/05 09:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
H
Member
I would like to know how the MASTER would install the phone, CATV, multi-room sound and high speed internet in every room.

I certainly hope sound has nothing to do with what we are ranting about here.

Data, voice and CATV I do the same as I would any commercial job only on a smaller scale. Why should it be any different?

... it makes for easy troubleshooting. And they are very simple to add onto.

Easy troubleshooting sure, if you have replacement parts on the truck should something go bad. Problem is you think that you are the only one who is ever going to handle this. Chances are the cable guy is going to tear it up putting his own stuff in and the TELCO guy is just going to walk away because he won't want to touch it.

As far as add-on's, sure again as long as you only have to make it bigger and the parts are available. What happens when I come along and need all the voice home runs run to the key system I'm going to install instead of the block inside that thing that bridges them all together?

Maybe if some one does not know how they all work together, they might not like them.

That's exactly the point. I don't want them to work together. I want data, voice, CATV and/or satellite separate in their own areas with enough room so they can be changed, configured or added to by the different crafts without bothering anything else. I also want standard components that anybody would have and know how to use.



-Hal

#46973 01/07/05 09:28 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
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Wow! This got a herd of goats! [Linked Image]

I am going to have to agree with Hbliss on this... "Just because the homeowner is an idiot doesn't mean that you should go along with it. You are supposed to be the professional and know better."

And this...."The point here is that any installation like this NEEDS TO BE MADE AS FLEXIBLE AS POSSIBLE to allow for future growth and changes. That simply isn't going to happen with this stuff that crams everything into a little box in a closet."

The ONLY reason I even use the box it because I am forced to. The owner and Arch have no idea what EIA/TIA 570 is, or what is about. And when I do, I use the largest one possible (48"), and often two of them!

See page 70 of this link:
IF YOU DONT HAVE BROADBAND YOU MAY NOT WANT TO OPEN THIS LINK IT IS 102 PAGES LONG! (in pdf) http://www.markhellerelectric.com/opencritique.pdf
(Remember it is a "Standard" not a "Code"!)

And the reason I can't use the guts, is that often my customers work from home, (technically have offices with employees at home) and have 6-12 lines, and ADSL, some with SDSL or sometimes T-1, and expect me to put that in the box too! 'Cause they went to someones house and saw a pretty box, now they want one, and are pissed off when I tell them I wont put it in closet. (Some of my Inspectors demand 110.26 workspace for them. I love it when they do!)

In the same amount of space you can put more in with standard equipment on 66, and 110 blocks at about the same price. And your customer won't know the differance, all they see is the front of the panel. And when you're not around, and some guy like me, or Hbliss comes by to add a line, we won't bag on the install.... Or say that we can't without starting over.

For the working from home culture, the guts of those items are adequate for a studio apartment. IMHO

Didn't mean to offend anyone, but it is just another reason for a VDV forum

eswets, I'm not sure how the Master would do it, but... If interested I could tell you how I would.


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#46974 01/07/05 11:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 138
C
Member
any links to VDV forums?

#46975 01/08/05 11:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
E
Member
This thread is hilarious. [Linked Image]

Any links to anger management forums? [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 01-08-2005).]

#46976 01/08/05 03:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,682
Likes: 3
Administrator
Member
IMO, with so many different situations and products available to suggest that something can or should only be done one way is a little short-sighted.

These systems are widely used and to suggest that all the Installers are ignorant or incompetant is ridiculous, but people have a right to an opinion.

Now that some strong opinions on this have been aired I hope the next time this subject comes up it can be less energized.

Bill

(edited - meant 'widely used', not wisely)

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 01-08-2005).]

#46977 01/09/05 07:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
H
Member
These systems are widely used and to suggest that all the Installers are ignorant or incompetant is ridiculous, but people have a right to an opinion...

Any links to anger management forums?


Looks like an apology is in order on my part. I made some strong statements above which I really did not intend to be taken the way they were or offend anyone. I'm sorry they caused this thread to take this direction.

Voice, video and data may be a familiar area to some of us while others are learning or looking for information. I'm happy to see that we have a VDV forum where this subject can be discussed.

I sincerely hope that this thread won't discourage anyone from asking whatever they have on their mind. I promise that in the future if I have comments or criticisms I'll try to express them more constructively rather than personally.

Again, my apologies to all.

-Hal

#46978 01/09/05 08:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 449
F
Member
I have used the Open House system for a few custom homes and I put one in my house too. It is just a mounting cabinet with rails to mount what ever voice/catv you need. It has room for expansion and even a separate compartment to mount a duplex for the amplifier, if you need one. It is priced reasonably and expansion blocks for voice/catv are readily available. I suspect the Leviton set-up is readily available too. They've been around a while.

#46979 01/09/05 11:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
L
LK Offline
Member
This is a good topic, and the lessons to be learned here are, when and where to use a systems cabinet, last year we removed 9 of them at owners request, it appears that on each job, someone installed a systems cabinet where cable runs would have to be excessive, and in some cases doubled back in order to use the cabinet, when we asked the homeowner why they wanted it removed, they said no one uses it, the answer is always the same, the cable company did not want to tie in to it, the phone company din't want to tie into it, and the computer wiring is on the other side of the house, VDV wiring requires good planning, to avoid interconnect problems, one way to avoid these problems is to get information from the homeowner on their present and possible future requirements, take the time to know your customers needs, and try to design a cable system for their needs, the cabinets on the market today assume, the installation is done by one contractor, and all utilities enter at the same location.
The structured wiring industry, has had some rough times, i belive much of it is due to the lack of understanding, the difference of point to point wiring, and systems wiring, which has defined wiring requirements, for each installation, and this must be done in order to meet or exceed the customers present, and future needs.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 01-09-2005).]

#46980 01/10/05 12:27 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Now how in the world did this get locked and then unlocked???????!!!!!!!!

RIP!

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