ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Hurricane Frances

Ellen,

I agree with jps1006, I think there may be some misunderstanding here.

Personally, I think interaction with Home Inspectors is a great idea and this is an excellent question to bring up. I would like to hear more discussion on it myself.

Bill

I did misunderstand, we were 5 days without power (we are the lucky ones) and that can mess you up in the head somewhat. When I organize my photos I will post a photo of what our cables look like after the storm.

Bill, thank you for your welcome and the valuable link. I will include the link in our reports as a reference.

Aland, thank you for your reply in the few cases we have seen thus far the mastheads, risers and overhead lines are a mess. The power companies are cutting some lines to some peoples houses till the homeowners get electricians to work on the equipment that is the homeowners responsibility.

We will be recommending that any wall or ceiling containing receptacles, switches, fans etc that have sustained water damage be replaced by a licensed electrician.

We are visibly checking overhead lines, masts for stress, exterior/interior panels for water/moisture intrusions.

Is there anything in addition that may be hidden from view that you guys uncover or think you may find in this situation that we can relay to the homeowner to convince them to have an electrical contractor perform a full evaluation of the electrical system once the power is on? Do you think a full evaluation is necessary when the majority of damage is water related? Note: We do not have any flooding (rising water).

The work that you guys do save lives, we are here to convince the consumer the importance of hiring a licensed electrician in lieu of their neighbor Bill or Bob from Georgia that is here to take an advantage of the situation. The more info we have the easier it is to convince our customers to do the right thing and hire a licensed electrician.

Believe it or not, in alot of cases the homeowner does not fear messing around with their and their friends electrical systems.

Sincerely,
EB

No house ever passes an inspection without electrical issues?? or does that mean you use an electrician to inspect the wiring??

Walrus, thanks for your interest.

We perform the electrical inspection along with the mechanical, roof etc. So the answer would be as a result of our inspection, work is generated in all fields. We do not pass or fail anything. We Report, document and photo our findings.

An example. Typical 14 yr old house panel: Sub panel garage: Full of overspray. Knockouts missing covers. Doubletapped grounded (neutral)conductors. Ground conductor added to the grounded bus bar. Ground conductors at ground side of bus bar in a single screw terminal that are different sizes.

When the electrician comes out to do the work, we expect if there are other problems we might not be aware (still learning as everyone is in every field)those will be brought to the attention of the appropriate party.

We look at the listing and labeling of the panel, take photos of the label if present for additional support for our findings.

In a nut shell: We try to provide as much information to our customers so they understand the importance of getting problems fixed.

If anyone has any additional information we can pass on to our hurricane victum customers to alert them to dangerous situations that may be present and not readily visible (most have no power) I would be interested in hearing them.

Sincerely,
EB

Ellen,

How do the Insurance Companies stand on this issue? What are the guidelines they follow for estimating damage? (what they will pay for)

I think these issues have to be evaluated too before a recommendation is made. The NEMA reference I linked to only talks about replacement of cables (NM-B specifically mentioned) that have been submerged in water.

Bill

Bill,

Thanks for the interest.

I don't know but at this point I believe that the insurance adjuster with a copy of our report inclusive of back up information will be more apt to pay for replacement of devices rather then disregard a potentionally hazardous condition. The information that we provide usually results in a call to an electrician for additional support if disputed. Maybe someone that does work as a result of insurance claims has better knowledge of that.

(I think these issues have to be evaluated too before a recommendation is made.)
With respect, if I understand correctly, I have a question. Why would the recommendation be different based on what the insurance company will pay on a claim?

I would hope that our customer would take our advice and the followup advice of a licensed electrician and fix the problem regardless of who is paying for it.

Sorry about the thread drift but maybe the following comments will give you guys some insight as to where we are coming from. We are just concerned in providing accurate information so the end user is aware so they have the opportunity to make an educated decision when it concerns their families safety.

What attracts me to the poster's on this board is you guys take potentional hazardous conditions very seriously. You will find on the home inspector web boards some posters are working for someone other than their customer and will pick and choose what to inform the customer of, decide in their own minds what codes and standards are important and the result is a vague, meaningless report and a quick sale of the house.


EB

Ellen,

I don't know what their guidelines are, but if you are recommending widespread replacement of wiring that will not be covered by Insurance you should be very sure that damage has indeed been done. Otherwise you would be doing a disservice to the Owner.

I suggest trying to contact wiring, device and fixture manufacturers for their opinions on when damage has been done to their products.

Bill

I used to wire homes in Florida a few decades back.
I do not recall any common use of alum ser cables in that area, but anyway if there is salt water contacting any alum conductors then there will probably be problems with those connections.

Bill, Excellent idea. I will email a couple of manufacturers on Monday and see what their recommendations are.

What we are seeing is satuated walls with outlets and switches and satuated ceilings with fans and fixtures. We are not recommending widespread replacement of wiring inside the wall. And yes, that would be a disservice to the claiment. The condition of the wiring inside the walls and ceilings we would defer over to an electrician to determine. The electrician I talked to said that the corrosion at the connections may not be readily visible right away but over time may form and cause the loss of the neutral, make sense?

MacMikeMan, 99% of the home's we inspect here in east central florida the entrance cables (same as ser cables?)are aluminum. That is not the case in south east florida (Dade county) they are copper.

Thanks for your ideas
Sincerely,
EB

Salt water's not just an issue for AL wiring, but copper too, to a lesser extent. Al/clad alloys,(the type used for neutral and CB busses in panel work, most wire nut too) have rather sever reactions to moisture of any kind.

Then there is the possibility of flooded conduits and cables where this moisture will sit unable to evaporate for months or years to come. As the grounds in these are often unisulated. Deteriation may be unnoticed for years.

For issues of water contamination, there are certain chemical solutions like CRC 2-26, and Corrosion-X, that can be used in limited situations, but like Bill mentioned contacting manufaturers for for advise on if that can be done to thier product would be advised. I would assume most would advise replacement.

I could also assume there are dehumidifiers everywhere in Florida now.