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#41342 08/28/04 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
L
LK Offline
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Yes Box Store is higher prices then local supply house. As our accountant was trying to tell us, our rate needs to increase to meet expenses, he used the same format that Pat posted, www.nosecrets.com
On material he said we paid an average of 40% more for all our material at the Box store, he had all the receipts, from both Box, and local supply houses.

We mark-up Fixtures 30%, High ticket items 10 to 20% and switches outlets boxes, fittings 50 to 100% and these figures may be on the low side, as noted in other posts stocking material costs money, pick up the item, sort it, every time you move it, inv. the item, and pay the inv tax on it, add a small profit to it, it all adds up.

My last invoice for truck repairs, Spark plug $6.10 ea.
Hmmm, I guess i will bring my own spark plugs the next time. Think he will do the job?


[This message has been edited by LK (edited 08-28-2004).]

#41343 08/28/04 03:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
A
Member
That is a great labor calculator tool. I need to raise my rates for sure. Thanks.

I try my best to include material and labor in one price for the whole job. That is the number that is inportant to the customer. Maybe some other states have to seperate material and labor for taxes.

The more you break down the prices the more the customer can pick your prices apart. A lot of people do it. Look at the $6 spark plug. If they just said $600 for a tune-up you would have nothing to say.

The customer does not allways know the current prices or the quality of materials you use.

If you put down 3/4 EMT $9 x 10=$90 it sounds high to even me as the price was $2 a stick not long ago. But $9 is about 50% mark-up of the prices today. I would say a number for the whole job.

On proposials I break it down by type of opening and other extra things like kitchen circuits. I'm starting to wish I just put "electrical as to print". In the end I might find one thing I forgot to count and put on the proposial. But the customer wants an exact count on everything and credits for anything less than on the proposial. So I loose both ways and waist time counting every thing in the end.

Tom

#41344 08/28/04 04:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 814
B
Member
I am having trouble opening the calculator. It keeps wanting to download it to my Palm installation program. Any tips? I not exactly a PC whiz.

#41345 08/28/04 06:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
D
Member
I've compared my local distributor and the box stores. The local is reasonably competitive (within 10%). I'll usually allow them up to 15% over the box before I purchase there. After all, while the hours are better, the box didn't extend me credit, won't deliver, and can't tell me war stories over the same crappy coffee!

#41346 08/28/04 10:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
H
Member
e57, about the only thing I can suggest if the situation is that bad is not to do work there. That's a business decision as valid as any other.

We refuse to do work in the City of New York. It's not because of the money- that's actually very good, but because of the lack of parking, theft from trucks, union problems, etc. To me it's just not worth it and I do business in the smaller cities just to the north and the suburbs.

-Hal



[This message has been edited by hbiss (edited 08-28-2004).]

#41347 08/29/04 12:56 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
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The compitition problem is wide spread over the whole Bay Area. Don't get me wrong, I am well aware of what mat mark-up is for, and how to work the numbers in my favor. Nor do I do any work for free or at a loss. And there is so much work out there, no lack of that, and lay in the center of it. My average commute to a job is 3 miles! I also have only ever taken a day off by choice, in the last ten years here!

The problem here is that the are TOO many of us here. We have EC's coming in from 80 miles around. Many with slave waged and unqualified labor, little over-head and desparation. (which is why they come in droves, there isn't much work where they are.) So there is a lot of under cutting, or rightly, "cut throat".

Another issue, is the customer base here is very well edjucated! The average new home owner goes directly into remodel mode on purchase, which is great! Bad part, they have a wealth of experianced freinds who've done the same for "How to wittle away at the cost." A lot of the older money here is very edjucated in contract negotiation, as most of thier mansions are in constant re-model, trying to out do each other.

Four months from now we are all due for a big shake up of the electrical trade! Due to a law about to take effect. It requires Certified Journeymen for any work over 100VA, for all employees of C-10's. No one is quite sure what will happen... I actually fight against and maintain a webpage about it, but for policital reasons don't talk about it here. (Not ECN policy to discuss politics here) In short, I don't like the law for its many loop-holes, but think in ideal is great. Anyway in four months our market is going to change possibly... Better? All the hacks are gone. Worse? We compete with landscapers for service upgrades. Who knows....

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 08-29-2004).]


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#41348 08/29/04 08:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 106
P
Member
BigB,
Sorry, I'm no computer whiz either. Somebody help him out.
Everybody else,
Thanks so much for all the posts and help so far! All of your input has helped me tremendously. I'm sure you all have helped a lot of other guys struggling like me too.

I had about a 50 minute conversation with one of my clients about all this yesterday. He basically told me he didn't care what labor rate I charged, or what my mark-up was. He knew my work and my reputation in the area, and would gladly pay what I needed to keep me in business. He told me to raise my rates and see what happens. Worst case---lose all my customers and go out of business quickly instead of a long slow death by under charging. [Linked Image]


Power to the people
#41349 08/29/04 01:43 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
Member
Pat I tried that calculator, it is pretty cool! Rates were not far off.

BigB, try this to open it:

http://www.nosecrets.com/Labor%20Rate%20CalculatorHVAC.xls

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 08-29-2004).]


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#41350 08/30/04 08:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 106
P
Member
BigB,
Did that link work? If it did, how do your current rates compare with what popped up on the calculator? Anywhere close?
Pat


Power to the people
#41351 08/30/04 09:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
Member
Money is always a sore subject, but one I believe more of us in this industry who are in our own business could use a better education in.

My 2 cents [Linked Image]

Free estimates:
They can use up to 2 weeks of your billable time per year,in some cases even more (that happens when you do not charge enough, so you keep going on estimates for more work).
I stopped doing free estimates when I got busier, I charged on average for a house estimate $500 and right away knew who the serious players were, not wasting any time with the people who were fishing for the lowest price.
Remember, that a lot of jobs come without the proper prints, so then you become the 'engineer'. Hmmm - do engineers work for free?

My prices went up, thereby immediately eliminating the poor paying customers who wasted too much of my time early on in business. A huge benifit is when you service these type of clientele, they always tell their 'rich' friends about your work. These people will rarely ask for a price, but demand service and do not want to hear any storie of why the job is not finished.


Working less hours for more money affords you the time and money to properly train your men, and offer better pay to keep the good men.

ITS A WIN WIN SITUATION!!!

The only problem is not enough of our industry has grasped this principle yet.

Oh one more benifit of making more money... when the job for an elderly couple comes along, you have the benefit of charging them less if charging them at all [Linked Image]!!

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
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