ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area California 3-way

OT, but relevant. An old timer at the supply house gave me something to think about one day. He said they used to wire a 3 way switch and a constant hot outlet in a detached garage with only one 14/3 going to the house. He said they didn't use the ground for a neutral. I've thought about it and can't come up with a way to make it work. Does anybody have any ideas? Is it possibly related to this 3 way?

Hey! Whadda ya mean "California" 3 way! ...S

Electric Eagle,

Take a look at the #3 diagram in the link that Winnie (Jon) provides in his first post. The problem is that the lampholder polarity will flip, depending on the switch positions, but one can use a 14/3, only, and make the light "work" and get a constant hot and neutral for the garage outlet.

Al

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 03-10-2004).]

#3 seems to be the evil california 3-way we originally talked about. Hot and neutral go to the traveler terminals and the commons go to the light.
Andy, I know it under the names Hamburger Wechselschaltung, Sparwechselschaltung or Kreuz-und-Gewitter-Schaltung.
One additional problem is when an old, worn-out switch arcs you have a nice fat short and don't know why.
In Germany that system was once used to feed a grounded receptacle and 3-way switch with only 2w+ground cable. How? Black = hot. grey = Neutral with jumper wire to ground screw at receptacle (once legal) and red wire (actually intended to be the ground wie, but that wasn't ever that strict, according to code red could also be used as a phase) was the fixture wire.
Simple and ugly, and probably outlawed in the 1920ies or 30ies. "Classic grounding" was allowed until 1973.

Ok,...this is all to confusing for me ....With all these different ways to wire a 3-way,did someone lose sleep coming up with this or what?? ...what's wrong with the conventional way we do it?..Our way is so much safer,and easier...in my opinion..and I finally taught my guy how to wire one..
AR

AR,

When I was an apprentice, my Master used to complain about the high cost of 14/3. . .nearly double the cost of 14/2. He'd complain that you only got one more conductor for all that money! I think he'd have loved to cut down on the heap of stock in his truck by just not stocking 14/3. . .but he came down on your side, ultimately: Personally, I like the puzzle aspect of all the possible 3-way combos. I like the understanding that comes when all the pieces fit together and I can see the whole picture.

It seems to me that it is consistantly known by the name of somewhere else:

in NC, it's the Chicago 3-way
in Chicago, it's the Califoria 3-way
in Germany, it's the American 3-way
and Boston even gets the French involved!

Is anyone willing to own up to this crazy way of wiring?