ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Work Performed by Unlicensed Electricians

"Hanging temporary lighting with cord cap end."

This task if not supervised, can become a hazzard.
Will the untrained check the connections before installation.
Check the lamp type required.
Install string with proper support
Consider the load if multiple strings are used.

Speaking of temp lights, have any of you put temp incandescent lights, the real big lamps, on 277V circuits? Big mistake for the other tradesman who decides to replace a burnt out one with a regular 120v.

... I gotta go with the general consensus here,and say it depends on the proficiency of the installer..(supervised of course..)because I've seen alot of "butchers" out there that hold a licence, but don't give a hoot and a holler about how,or what they're doing...Makes me sick sometimes ... Thats OK,.. I'll never lower my standards,and when I go home,I'm proud of what I've done..Big money,or peanuts,...the workmanship is the same... in my opinion!!
AR

This issue gets my blood boiling. Unlicensed usally mean uninsured, unqualified. Here in Pa unlicensed is the norm. The state has no requiements local municipalities only(and not very many). So everybody has an uncle, bro., friend that was/is/knows electrical. Most carry no insurance. People seem to be of the mindset that if it works it must be right. Even much of my compitition are unqualified. Recently came upon 3 control relays for exterior lighting, cramed in a 6x6x4 box. 3 separate circuits 1 neutral all#10, single phase. Then #14-3rx to the switch 1 wire for each relay, use the 15a lighting circiut as control feed. uh oh we need a neutral lets see we can use this here # 10. Needless to say it works most of the time. The relays hang up sometimes. I think the heat. They have been OK since I removed the cover.Waiting for weather to correct this. I must mention this is a 5300sqft home all the bells and whistles. (200a Service thats another story)

Ob

[This message has been edited by Obsaleet (edited 03-06-2004).]

Joe,
Yes the thing you mentioned are things I did as an apprentice directly under a LICENSED journeyman. He would check eveything I did. As I gained his confidence he let me do more.

Ob

I'd have to say that there's quite a difference in safety to the installer between punching holes in metal studs and drilling out wood.
Punching metal I don't see as a problem, but as anybody who's ever caught a 16d or 20dnail with an auger and a Hole-hawg or right angle drill can attest, it can really put a hurt on you.
I'd think the wood drilling would be better left to someone that's got the experience to know where the unseen nails are (usually) located...S

How exactly does one become experienced with out doing the task? hmmmmmm.

I don't see a problem with anyone carrying out these tasks so long as it's done under the guidance and supervision of someone suitably qualified.

As has been said above, the degree of supervision necessary depends very much upon the skills and knowledge of the person concerned.

An excellent point. We all had to start somewhere.

What is the definition of supervised. The company I used to work for sent, on average, 20 two-man crews out to do new residential wiring. Neither had a license. They had three supervisors that were licensed to check on them and do estimating for the service department. I seriously doubt that every crew was checked everyday. On the commercial side, they had a crew leader that ran the job and I think very few of them were licensed.
Here in the Carolinas you aren't getting a license to be an electrician, you get a license to be an electrical contractor. As a licensed electrical I don't like the situation because it tends to drive down prices, but that's the way it is. It is, however, better than where I used to live (KY) no license no inspection required.

"Personally, I see this as a threat to our industry, and to the time we as qualified electricians spent in the field and in an apprenticeship"

This is the issue, time spent learning the trade. Licensed or not, the amount and quality of proper training is the real concern.
An apprentace should be under supervision of a Master or licensed electrician. How close the supervision, will depend on how competent for the task the installer is.
Licenses are issued to those who have the proper level of training, and apprentances are trained by these master electricians.
Yes, everyone has to start somewhere and that is as an apprentance.