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Joined: Jan 2003
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I agree water is wet and moist air condensates in raceways.

But I did not know that opinions where now enforceable.

Tell me what was the need for 300.5(D)(5)(5) was if there was an article that would force the use of wet location conductors in supposedly dry raceways already?

We use THWN and RHW for outside work by choice and spec. not by the NEC.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 267
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Or you could just make life simple and buy an A/C whip. All made up with L.T., 20, 30 or 40 amp, connectors and reducing washers. Less money and a labor saver.

Joined: Jun 2003
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As Don has stated, outside locations are considered wet locations. Read the last sentence of the definition of Location, Wet in Article 100. For argument sake, there was 2 feet of snow on the ground here this winter, covering the raceways to most condensors and when it melts that is water - some were even completely encased in ice from the 'ice damming'.
What about 300.7?
I do not understand why it is so hard to use the proper conductor in the proper location whether we like the code rule or not. It is not even a cost issue.
Again this comes down to differences of opinion and if one disagrees with one part of a code and another disagrees with another part of a code, what is the sense of any code?
Most new conductors are dual rated as THHN/THWN, but there are still some that are single rated.

Pierre

[This message has been edited by PCBelarge (edited 02-22-2004).]


Pierre Belarge
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Outside is a wet location the inside of a sealed conduit is not outside.

Look at the use of FMC in wet locations.

Why all the hub bub about rain tight connectors for EMT if we are we required to use wet location conductors inside the conduit anyway.?

That is easy, because we are not required to use wet location conductors in sealed raceways in wet locations.

Only in underground locations maybe this should be a change in the code but right now it is what it is.

There is nothing hard about using wet location conductors but the inspector for targetshooters application does not have a code article to cite for failing it.

300.7 does not require wet conductors either and it would be a tough sell to say that 300.7 even requires sealing these short sections of raceway.

I thought we had moved beyond making up codes to fit our personal ways of working.

Give me a break. [Linked Image]

Bob


Bob Badger
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If the raceway interior is a dry location in 'wet locations', why does 225.22 say that raceways on the exterior of buildings need to be 'arranged to drain'?

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
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Pierre, you make a good point regarding 225.22. The problem I have, however, is that that section requires the raceway to be "raintight". As defined, raintight does not allow water to enter the raceway. Perhaps the section you quote is refering to water accumulation ON the raceway and not IN the raceway? I don't know.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
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Pierre I agree that is interesting question.

I also notice 225.22 gives an exception for FMC used in wet locations but not an exception for LFMC.

Obviously FMC is "self draining" and arranging it to drain might conflict with 348.12(1)

Has anyone ever arranged a length of LFMC to drain between a disconnect and HVAC unit, I have never seen it done.

Here is the Handbook Commentary
under 225.22
Quote
Raintight is defined in Article 100 as constructed or protected so that exposure to a beating rain will not result in the entrance of water under specified test conditions. To ensure this, all conduit bodies, fittings, and boxes used in wet locations are required to be provided with threaded hubs or other approved means. Threadless couplings and connectors used with metal conduit or electrical metallic tubing installed on the exterior of a building must be of the raintight type [see 342.42(A), 344.42(A), and 348.42].
If raceways are exposed to weather or rain through weatherhead openings, condensation is likely to occur, causing moisture to accumulate within raceways at low points of the installation and in junction boxes. Therefore, raceways should be installed to permit drainage through drain holes at appropriate locations.

I see no mention of conductors but that still leave Pierre's question.

Why arrange to drain if it does not get wet?

And with that I still would like to know why the couplings and connectors would have to be raintight if the intention is not to keep the conduit sealed.

Bob


Bob Badger
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Massachusetts
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My only answer is where raceways are exposed to different temperatures - whether from inside to outside or from the length being exposed to different temperatures along its length - such as parts in shade and parts in the sun, etc... condensation forms water.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
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I'm going to stay out of the "raceway" issue because I feel like a whimp today. [Linked Image]

The violation I see is as Curt, Walrus, and probably someone I missed brought up, this would bring 310.8, 310.10, and 310.11 into play.

Personally I don't see an issue except for the applicable wording of these code sections.

Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 02-22-2004).]

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Quote
Originally posted by resqcapt19 02-21-2004 07:23 PM
In my opinion all raceways installed outside are wet locations.
Don

? OK, so the inside of Rigid Metal Conduit that is properly made up ("Wrench tight") is now a wet environment?

I was going to quote the "Location" defenition, but I don't think it serves the purpose here, since it doesn't cover the interior of any listed raceway.

I could agree that setscrewed EMT might constitute a "damp" location... but isn't liquidtight, liquid tight by definition (and construction?)? Part of the "uses" of LFNC is "...protection of the contained conductors from vapors, liquids, or solids;"

If a section of liquidtight raceway cannot do that, why use liquidtight?

[heh heh... this is a good topic today!]

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