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Joined: Dec 2003
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..I like the "unit pricing" method
Isn't that what you got? Priced per run. Oh, you want it priced per opening because it suits you.
What happens when we get openings that are back to back or a number of openings that are grouped together and a large number of cables can be pulled at once? Are we supposed to "discount" the labor there too?
...this contractor uses estimating software that prices all his work. That is how he arrived at his labor number. But his software has no adjustments for this kind of combining of the work.
Right because that's how it is done, per run. There is no adjustment for your complaint nor is there one for the conditions I just described.
What this really boils down to is apparently your employer was happy with the figure originally quoted until this change exposed the pricing method. In actuality then you should also be seeking a adjustment in the original price for all the "duplicate labor charges" if you feel you are entitled to a discount here.
If you want a firm price up front this is how it's done- per run. If you want the actual costs then it's time and material and I'll bet T&M will cost you more.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 25
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hbiss - i see i touched a nerve. what we got was a bid on the entire building installation - power, data, security - everything. let me ask a question. when the contractor sets his bid price, doesn't he take things like this into account to enable him to get the lowest bid? So why can't we ask for the same consideration? "We think we see a way to save some money, what do you think" - that sort of thing. is there NO room for negotiation here?
Bob
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Seeks,
you would have to discuss this with the contractor to see if there is ANY room for negotiation.
Keep in mind, your point of view is that there are multiple runs that can be done at the same time as others, BUT, do you know the added effects of this?
It can be much more difficult to manage 5 spools of wire than 3. All it takes is one spool to keep rolling and it's down the ladder you go.
We price at $100 per line. 2=$200, 4=$400, and so on. There is no break when doing multiple runs.
It also appears that he gave a full credit for the changed items.
Todd
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
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The computer estimating program I use works the same way in either getting a base bid or a change order. It basically has a price based on the average time to install an outlet with an average length of a conduit and wire run. Like all averages some runs are longer and some are shorter, but all assemblies will have the same components (e.g. a box, wiring device, mud ring, and cover plate).
It sounds to me like you got what you asked for.
Extras and change orders on jobs that are caused by owners or designers who change thier minds after a contract is awarded need to ask themselves why they did not make that change before bid day. They are always percieved as expensive.
Good luck.
ed
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 73
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A couple of points regarding the Data Cabling.
When quoting material for Data we quote full boxes (1000 feet) there for you looking at the cable length may be unjustified, by the way you can ask for the leftovers. they have been paid for.
There is more labour involved in running CAT6 over CAT 5e and there is a greater risk to the contractor when installing. he might run into problems with cables during installation and fail tests. This risk burden will show up in his labour hours.
Also they cannot be pulled at same time as other systems, set-up and work metdods are not the same.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 69
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When we remodeled our office building the LAN installers charged $90 a cable. Did not matter if you had 1 or 10 going from point a to point b. We had several bids and all of them were the same. X$ for each cable!
"Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years to late" Jimmy Buffett
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 886
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...So why can't we ask for the same consideration? "We think we see a way to save some money, what do you think" - that sort of thing. is there NO room for negotiation here?
No, not in my mind.
He was awarded the contract fair and square then you changed the requirements. You asked for the net cost for the changes and you don't like them. These costs were calculated using the same method used to determine the original cost. Now you want him to negotiate. Why should he? It's like telling the lowest bidder "you are the lowest but you will have to do better".
Sounds like you know you have this guy over a barrel and are using this opportunity to get a better price.
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