ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Live Power

Other than trained and educated linemen.[soapbox mode}
I do nearly all the troubleshooting for our company (10-30 employees).
I will only take meter readings and the like with the power turned on. Any other work requires deenergization.
I don't care if the customer doesn't like the inconvenience. A dead electrician in their business is a BIG nuisance.

The last company I worked for went out of business, partly because of the death of an employee and the resultant Workman's Comp
One of the 3 owners gave up the trade forever. He and several other people had to have counseling/therapy for more than a year after this occurred, and still have recurrent nightmares.

The fella, about 25 yrs old, and one of those "legend in his own mind" guys, was working on a live definitely against company policy, and instructed not to 277V lighting circuit, while atop a scissor lift, and got the hot wire at the same time as he contacted a piece of EMT. He fell about 30 feet after he was electrocuted.
He left a widow, and 2 sons without a Dad.

We have an absolute and strict LOTO program at the new Co. If we catch a "Cowboy" working something hot, his last check will be ready immediately.

It's no joke, and not something to be taken lightly.

If you're an employer, and don't require it from your guys, I have no sympathy for your future. If your an electrician, and don't require it for yourself, think about your family.
Some of you don't have any respect for your livelihood, nor your life.
I'll see if I can get some stats. [/soapbox mode]

Try stickin' this subject up on the "Safety" parts of this Forum, and see what you get!!...s

Well said Electure

I'll 'fess to it.

Of course, I work primarily with 110 - and I only work hot on a very rare basis. Usually just changing a receptacle, switch, or some such, and only where there's a single conductor in the box.

Multiple "hots", or >110? Kill 'em. Kill 'em all. Just got an Ideal 61-090 voltage / continuity tester on clearance at Grainger, and it replaces 3 smaller testers I used to tote around (Non Contact Voltage presence, high voltage up to 600VAC/200VDC, low voltage as low as 24VAC/6VDC, and audible continuity)


Tried to import pic, but couldn't.


[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 02-12-2004).]

Electure sized it up well. Nowadays/with soon-to-be arc-flash evaluation, low-voltage live work does lose some urgency. Hopefully this will stave off some “hot-doggers.”

Folks that snivel about ‘critical’ data loss from an outage automatically move to the bottom of my priority list. ‘Forgotten’ notification becomes more appealing. [Sometimes I have to remind self-important cubicle dweebs that I am as liable as the regional electric utility for electric-service continuity. But—don't try that at an international-banking data center that has a 22-page switching order to keep everything in a scheduled outage scripted in detail.]

It’s generally a given that low-voltage work does not require 29CFR 1910.269 training, but there’s not much question recent 29CFR 1910.331-335 orientation will be scrutinized in a construction/industrial shock/flash incident.

OTOH, do you have ASTM class-0 gloves and protectors? When was their last test date?

...We try and kill the power,when we can,otherwise we do work live..I've instructed my guys to treat a "dead" wire as if it were hot,and check the circuit,even if it is declared to be dead...
AR

More electricians are killed by 120v wiring because so many work it live.
Electure has written a very good post on this subject. Remember your family when you are working. It is not too difficult to have power turned off in an office environment, just tell them it may short out so you are trying to be considerate of the people who may lose power

BTW- the majority of lives lost are the younger and the older in our industry - younger don't know better, and the older don't know better!

Pierre

[This message has been edited by PCBelarge (edited 02-14-2004).]

after getting shocked several times (never at work, always at home ) i always work dead.

if i cant find the right breaker, i start research which one it could be and try a few... i dont risk my life for the stupidity of others, not marking their work.


[This message has been edited by :andy: (edited 02-14-2004).]

Quote: "I work primarily with 110 - and I only work hot on a very rare basis. Usually just changing a receptacle, switch, or some such, and only where there's a single conductor in the box."

These words are the ones we wanted to put on Johns stone. He was 32 years old, and left a wife and 4 year old son.

When looking for a new employee, this answer helps save time in the interview.

Once he told another electrician, "What do you expect them to shut down the whole plant just to change a switch.

When you meet someone that takes this position, it is best to stay clear and stay alive.

electure,
Was that accident in Jersey ? Just 5 min. form my shop there was the same accident, he was working 277 hot changing ballast at food store, they claimed the manager told them, he needed the lights on so shoppers would not be in the dark. This accident was just 2 weeks after Johns accident.
How soon they forget.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 02-14-2004).]

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 02-14-2004).]

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 02-14-2004).]

I'd agree totally with Electure.
There are very few cases where you have to "work live".
Even in commercial buildings, I've gone in before the "Office Hours" start to hook up wiring that I installed the day before, shutting down all power to the building in the process.
Also, there have been times when I have had to "deaden" half the district to joint a fallen HV wire, but hey, the people only lost power for a few minutes and I'm still alive to talk about it.
It all about priorities!.

Trumpy,
I think some of these cowboys, are afraid to take the proper route, they fear someone will think they are not a good electrician if they have to cut the power.
Johns wife, told us, he worked hot because other electricians would think he din't know what he was doing.