ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Non-US Visitors - A Question?

No, I've never been to anywhere in Scandinavia, but Sweden, Norway, and Finland always look very attractive to me.
I love lakes, forests, mountains, etc., so I could quite happily live in a nice log home out in the wilds.

The only countries I've ever been to (in addition to the U.K. and U.S.A. of course) are France, Spain, and the Republic of Ireland. Have you ever been to England or America?

How many of you other guys here have visited anywhere in Britain/Europe? Just curious.....

Bill:

Your original question for this topic was about GFCIs for bathroom outlets, etc. With all the details of our grounding and whole-house ELCBs, I haven't yet gotten around to explaining bathroom outlets here.

This is one area where our IEE Regs. have been very specific for many years. Normal convenience outlets - whether GFCI protected or not - are not allowed in a bathroom. Period.

The only socket (receptacle) permitted is one intended for feeding an electric razor. These are non-grounding sockets designed to take a plug with two round pins. The plug is actually our old ungrounded 5-amp type which was widely used before the introduction of the new universal 13A plug (and continued to be used long after).

The razor outlet unit contains a 1:1 isolation transformer, providing the standard 240V but with no ground reference. In many cases, the xfmr and outlet are incorporated into a strip light fitted over the mirror.

Similar lights with a razor outlet but no isolation xfmr are also available. These are intended for non-bathroom use (e.g. bedroom vanity unit), but because they're much cheaper it's not at all unusual to find them in bathrooms anyway.

With the "Regs." not being legally binding and no inspections, violations are not uncommon.

Do your countrywomen have blow dryers (handheld hair dryers)?

Using blow dryers and hair curling irons in the bathroom is pretty much the norm in the USA.


[This message has been edited by Dspark (edited 08-22-2001).]

Sure they do, it's just that according to the Institute of Electical Engineers they have no business to be using them in a bathroom! I'm sure the womenfolk would reply that the IEE is obviously all male!

If our girls (or guys for that matter) want to use such things in the bathroom, they generally just plug an extension cord into an outlet in the hallway or an adjacent room (thus defeating the whole purpose of the IEE ban on bathroom outlets).

Of course, in bathrooms fitted with the "incorrect" razor outlets many folk just change the plug on the dryer to fit. It won't work on the proper xfmr types though, because they're usually rated at about 30VA max. and incorporate a thermal overload cut-out.

>just plug an extension cord into an outlet in the hallway or an adjacent room

Run a blow dryer off an extension cord, do you?


What the minimum gage for an extension cord over there?

hmmm, some hardline REG's over there!

what purpose does the 1:1 iso-x-former serve?

Dspark:
It's possible to buy ready-made extensions using 0.75 sq. mm conductors for light use, but most store-bought types are medium-duty using 1 sq. mm, which is just slightly larger than #18 (we don't use AWG). These are generally fitted with a 5A fuse in the plug.

Heavier extensions are 1.5 sq. mm, which is about 15% larger than #16. Remember that everything here is 240V, not 120, so it's only half as much current for the same amount of power.

Sparky:
The 1:1 xfmr is intended to remove any reference to ground from the razor supply. Remember that our "hot" line is 240V to ground. The secondary is completely isolated from both the primary and from ground, so im theory there's no path for shock current even if someone conacts one side of the razor wiring.

I think the Regs. are in danger of being too strict on this. Which is better: A bathroom outlet suitably placed away from the tub and protected by a sensitive 10mA GFI, or a trailing extension which may be plugged into a outlet with no GFI protection at all?

>what purpose does the 1:1 iso-x-former serve?

It is an ungrounded SDS. The only path for shock is between the two conductors themselves. So short of chewing on the cable, it is pretty safe.

Secondly, the transformer has a high impedance so not much fault current is available (125 mA as stated).

Another point is that some razor outlets have a socket will accept not only our old-style 5A plug, but also the Continental plug (similar, but with thinner pins spaced farher apart) and the Australian plug (flat blades each angled outward at 45 degrees).

Some types (especially favored in the big hotels) have a tapped secondary on the xfmr and a separate 110V outlet which will accept the Continetal plug (still used for 110 to 127V in some countries or a standard NEMA U.S. plug.