ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Breaker Thieves

The late, great Johnny Cash: One Piece at a Time (and it didn't cost me a dime).

And what's even sadder about the whole situation is if one of these slugs were to get electrocuted in the process, their family would probably try to sue claiming things should have been made more sucure.

Well now....I get on the forum for the first time and find out there are problems above and below the 49th....

My experience having managed some large industrial installations is that a lot of the shrinkage on-site is insider stuff....(staff)

None-the-less....the added cost of theft only makes it more difficult for the honest contractor to make a living, eh?

In my neck of the woods, generators, drills, and other essential tools seem to walk with regularity.

I can't discount the odd problem with white collar crime either...I visited a summer home of a senior exec and the carpeting was strangely similar to the installation for the board room of the hospital project we were doing.

Any way, just got carried away on the subject

Recently we have had "theft" of a different kind. Counterfeit and/or refurbished breakers from the orient with fake ULC/CSA stickers.....Some are using new boxes with breakers salvaged from fires, demolitions etc.

Doug..............et al

Saw a thread here a while ago about the booming business of faking UL/CSA labels - IIRC, US Customs has several shipping container lots full of fakes - "labeled" and "listed" stem to stern.

The problem appears to be that it's more of a civil (copyright) infringment than a criminal (safety) issue to the US government, so enforcement is a low priority. Besides, they've got a hard enough time screening all of the inbound cargo for chem/rad/bio signatures - who really cares about a defective outlet with a bogus sticker, right:

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 01-14-2004).]

Where the heck does all this stuff go?

I occasionally sell breakers that I've pulled out (legally, and getting paid for it, only ones that would otherwise go in the trash) to a local breaker house. Fishing $.
They have a photocopy of my driver's license, and require it and my signature every time I go in to sell something like a 25 year old I-line destined for the dumpster.

They know me as a regular customer, as I buy there often as well.

We've been ripped in LA, Lakewood, City of Industry, Riverside...These are all miles apart, and they all reek of the same "Modus Operandi". Almost surgical removal (except for Industry, where they took every bit of Cu in the building larger than #6, and left a Corona bottle in the middle of the floor).

There's a way crooked breaker guy somewhere out here. Where on earth can someone sell a 2000 Amp 600V breaker, brand new, and not raise an eyebrow of suspicion?

Nick, thanks alot for the heads-up...S




[This message has been edited by electure (edited 01-14-2004).]

One disgusting aspect of this is that the “surplus-equipment dealer” probably only pays a nickel on the dollar for the “used” gear.

...Where on earth can someone sell a 2000 Amp 600V breaker, brand new, and not raise an eyebrow of suspicion?

Where else, ebay!

On a continuing story on post by electur, we caught an electricians apprentice in cahoots with the skip operater on a 26 story building stealing the copper from the plumbers, fitters and electicians.

The were as bold as brass loading copper pipe from 10 and 20ft lengths of 1/2" to 5" copper and reels of branch wiring (#12 and up) onto the skip. Their claim to anyone that asked was they had to do cleanup after hours because the general didn't want to slow the job down by having the skip used for claanup during the day.

Another group got caught stealing all the lead covered 15KV cable removed from a large farm implement manufacturing company. The cops had a stake out at the scrap yard and called the electricians company to verify the legality of the sale to the scrap dealer.

We had another group try to steal the Stainless Steel antennae ground plane used for 3 "Texas Towers" transmitters of a local radio station. (tons of stainless installed by one of my friends who was a hard hat diver).

And to wrap it all up, another group of uglies found out the grounding conductor for an older radio station was copper. They got a row boat and were able to grapple it, pull it to the surface and cut it into 4ft lengths. It got pretty heavy in the little row boat.

As for large air breakers etc. I find that a
A number of independent breaker and switchboard refurbishing installed switchboards rarely get asked where they acquired the breaker that just got the complex back on-line after a major failure....

I think its more difficult trying to resell something like a 3000 amp network protector or some such device because they are unique and brand name. Eaaaasy movers are soft starters and newer technology that no-one will ever see again. Mind you if someone tries to get warranty on a unit questions could/should be asked, BUT.............

Cheers.......

doug........et al

DougW:


I've read something like that also.

It mystifies me as to why its done because you don't need to have most small electrical devices (like triple-taps, night-lights, plugs, fans and extension cords) listed by UL in order to sell them.

So....why risk confiscation and fines? Just sell the darned things without the UL label....people will still buy them. In fact, I have some radios, extension cords, light-socket adapters, a power strip and even a 100 watt soldering gun (bought that yesterday) that are not UL listed. I even had a Taiwanese electric fan that was sans UL listing but that sucker died a few years back....

Now, I'm not condoning the purchase of non-ETL certified gear, but the fact is, it's available. Easily. Go to any dollar store or job-lot discounter.

So, why do these manufacturers go through the hassle of counterfeiting the UL certificates?

Oh I dont know.....mabey for liability protection. Or the ability to sell a product that can not be sold any other way unles it has the UL or CSA or CSA/UL sticker.

I can only state that in Ontario, Canada the Ontario Electical Safety Code makes it illegal to advertise, display or offer for sale or other disposal, or sell or otherwise dispose of any electrical equipment unless it has been approved in accordance with Rule 2-024

Rule 2-024 is the Approval of Electrical Equipment and includes certification by the CSA or the UL/ULC
http://www.csa-international.org/

It is, I guess, a oint of view, n'est pas?

Doug....et al