ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Californian's better get with it

OK, here's the newest update.
(the subject was brought up in the Pictures for Discussion area by e57)
Out of the estimated 75,000 to 90,000 people that are working as electricians, only 4363 were certified by June 7th. That's from 4.8% to 5.8%.

-------That's Absolutely Pitiful-------
Here's the link

Now what????

You're right there Electure!.
And with only 139 working days left until the 01-01-05 deadline, if I was in this boat, I'd be getting my A into G and doing something about it now, to avoid the rush later on.
5.8%?, that's ridiculous!.

I have taken the test! And, I'll tell you it was NOT easy. I passed with just under 90%, (86,or 87, I think. I have it on the paper somewhere...)but I consider myself fairly good with the book! The Contractor exam is a cake walk in comparison. We have most of our guys studing now, to take it soon. A lot of the test is little details in the Code, and noticed most of it was "changes" in the '96 to '99, and '99 to 02. So if you studied, or memorized, or just plain remember things from other than the '99, you are doomed! (ESL, doomed!)Look everthing up twice, and cross check. A lot of questions have exceptions, and multiple codes. You definately need to know how to cross-refferance, and look it up. Read the section, and any refferance, look that up, read that, and often you'll find near exact wording of the question! Easy stuff for any foreman, or project manager, but the grunts are going to have a hard time at this! And, I think that's the idea.............

Personal opinion,I think this a take over of "Entry to the Trade", if not the Trade itself. This is the end of "Casual Apprenticeship"! Note: This is not being done by the CSLB!

Mark,
The processes you describe for passing the test are, IMO, just skills needed for looking something up in the Code book anyway!!
BTW, there's no '02 Code involved, it's straight out of the '99, and is open book.

Hint= Look for the key phrase in the question to begin your search for the answer. You'll find them nearly all answered verbatim.

There are many companies out there that have "foremen" with 2 yrs experience supervising "journeyman" with 6 months experience and "helpers" with 2 weeks experience, none of which have ever even seen a Code book.

(If at all possible, I'd like to keep this thread going until this thing is done. Everyone, please...let's stay away from the "politics" of the issue, so we don't end up with a big padlock on it)...S

Scott:

I agree and would like to be of assistance.

What are the requirements for the instructors?

I lived in Glendale and Pasadena and was their Electrical Inspector in the 70's and 80's for a while and understand.

Do they use the 1999 NEC without amendments? How about Los Angeles and the County?

Joe - I just signed up for a prep calss thru the local hall, and they tell me to just bring a '99 NEC period. That's it.

So, I guess the '99 NEC is the basis of the entire process.

Radar

99 NEC. No amendments to worry about as the '99 NEC was adopted as the 2001 CEC. (California Electrical Code) That is what is in force here.
Joe as far a LA goes it is a test at the State level so any local amendments do not apply. As far as I know there is now requirements for instructors.

[This message has been edited by Nick (edited 06-16-2004).]

Electure,
True, the test is ALL '99 NEC! But, as an observation, without getting specific and posting all the questions I saw... It was as if, someone took a list of changes and developed a major portion of the test from it! Anyway, my point was, look up EVERTHING. Especially, the things you know, or think you know!

As for the "Foreman" thing, and ways to get around taking the test. (Mentioned earlier in the thread.) Foreman, or should I say Fore-Persons, (There's one in our Company) don't need to take this test! So long as they plan NEVER to pick up tools again. As this law is worded to this effect. My personal opinion is that, if anyone should be taking this test, it should be Foreman, and Project Managers! I have watched this law for the last three years, and how it has changed. That is one thing, I would like to see changed.

For those interested, this is a link to the wording of the Law as it stands now. http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/AB931regs.html
I suggest everyone take good read of it if they do bussiness in California.

As for Scott35... I would've sent this direct to you, but think it is relevent for all effected by this law.

I have, along with our Project Manager, been giving classes to our guy's. And, dare I say it, we do it on our own time! Our Cheif BOZO has found in the grace of his heart to pay for a brush up class, (which we didn't find exactly relevant!) and the test! Which he did not have to do, because this "our" Certification, not his. He thinks some of the guy's will bolt after they pass it! (I think he looks at it as a write off, not to mention a good training standard. And, he ends up with better guys, he can use more effectively. Maybe you should bring this up your current Big Top!) Certification, also does not end with the test! You must prove "Continuing Edjucation", and activity in the Trade every three years. The rules for this are still vague!

Anyway, here's some advice for test prep:

Brush up on Ohm's Law, Kirchoff's Law, etc. AC, DC Therory, Series, and Parallel! These items are 20% of the test, listed as "Princables", and "Fundementals".

The rest is all '99 NEC! Right out of the book. Like I said before look up EVERYTHING! (I suggest study from a Handbook version, as there is alot of useful commentary in them! And, helps the student reconize where items may be in need of discovery, or cross refferanced to something else.) And, drill through finding answers to questions. (Joe can help you with that, he has some posted somewhere I'm sure.) I throw a book at my guy's on the job, and make them look up what they are doing a lot! This is how I learned years ago!

As for the test, you are provided a copy of the '99 NEC, and the NFPA regular version is the only type you can bring in. (Not the Handbook version, or the other Mcgraw Hill version! This one http://www.buildersbooksource.com/c..._id=C9YUpvbY&mv_pc=221&location= ) And, they check every book for any marking or modification. (There's a guy who wrote a book that suggested cutting up a code book "with a band saw", three hole punching it, and re-arranging it for easy refferance. He has Tabs he can sell you too! Too bad they won't allow it in the test site! It wasn't a bad, or expensive book, but written before the testing started.) They also provide a calculator, scrap paper, and a pencil.

The Test is done on a computer, and looks and operates EXACTLY like this: http://www.experioronline.com/demos.htm

As for test stratagy: Guessing and then going back, is NOT advised! You have 4 hours to go through this! My opinion is to go through each question, look it up, move on. Then go back, and double check everything! You need a 70% to pass, it would be really stupid to walk out with a 69%! (Expensive too!)

If you Pass, kudos to you! If you don't..... DO NOT REPRESENT YOURSELF AS BEING "CERTIFIED" AFTER JAN 1,2005! Get caught at this, you will not be allowed to take the test for FIVE YEARS! You'll essentially be kicked out of the Trade!

Anyway, I've run on a bit about this. I have made a HOBBY out of this law for a while now!

And, now that is the law of the land, I have been advocating for edjucation about it! It may get post-poned, (agian) but it is NOT going to go away!

e57,
Scott35 could pass this test with his eyes closed. It was just a bad day. (He probably could write a better test) I suggest you look at our "Theory" forum and the "Technical Reference" Area. I don't think he'll be brushing up on Ohm's Law

Joe,
There's no "official" schooling offered by the State. There are courses being offered by many of the same companies that offer Contractors License classes. Also the Asoociated Building Contractors and the IBEW have classes.
The CEC is essentially the '99 NEC, with the addition of CA's Title 24 Energy Regulations.
Local amendments are limited to administrative, topographical, climatic, etc., and must be submitted and approved by the State. The LA and LA County Codes are the CEC, amended almost solely by administrative regulations. The LA Codes look like "mere shadows of their old selves".



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 06-17-2004).]

electure,
I did not intent to incinuate that Scott "Brush Up" on anything. But the persons he would be preping should! And, I was putting that out for everyone, not exactly for him. After all it is 20 points!

As for the Schools, the JATC has a great on-line course, that you can get access to through you're Local. I've seen it, it's not bad. ABC should have a decent course too! They have been really involved in this issue since day one. Some of the other coures out there... I'd say "buyer beware". The boss bought into a package deal for half the crew, like ten guys. The study packs showed up, and for lack of a better phrase, were "a little weak!" Which is why we started doing more in house.



[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 06-17-2004).]