ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Failed Inspection, need two pole breaker

Just MHO, but I can agree with the handle ties. I work and have worked several places where multiwire ckts are the norm (industry and a hospital), have been bitten twice from a shared grounded conductor, & when the line is down it is real hard to remember if the ckt is a shared one or not.

Don

That makes more sense to me now, you will not lock out breakers that you do not know are related.

Perhaps a code change to identifiy multiwire branch circuits?

I prefer to go the 1,3,5 route but we do have formen that will use 1,9,17 etc.

Also are you saying I am required to lock off all 3 breakers even if I am working downstream of spilting off to two wire circuits?

Thanks, Bob

I had one inspector say that I could not run a multiwire to a single dishwasher/disposal duplex receptacle. I looked up the code article, which stated that this practice is ok as long as a two-pole breaker is used. I made a short write-up on the situation and gave it to my boss (who was unlicensed and will always remain so) to pass on to the inspector. Instead, he made the changes required by that inspector because he was afraid to pizz him off!

I emphatically believe that it is wrong to allow an incompetent inspector to get away with these practices. He/she is probably getting paid far better than I and should at least use a small portion of that high-dollar time to show me the code I have supposedly violated. To turn your back or be complacent means your fellow tradesman may find himself in the same situation in the future. Point out the inspector's mistake now (in a sane manner) so that no one else will have to. Passing the buck is lazy and inconsiderate.

Bob,
I think that you must lock out all of the hots to the multiwire branch circuit before working on that circuit. There is always the possibility that the grounded conductor would become open between you and the panel leaving you with a "hot white wire".
Don

This is not a possibility if you are working down line from where you split.

We will often bring multi wire branch circuits out to a jbox in the ceiling of retail buildings, from there we use 2 wire circuits to separate pipe drops to gondolas (shelving) If I need to work on one of these why would I need to lock out the other two?


Bob

Bob,
If the grounded conductor(of the two wire branch) is still connected to the panel and there are loads on the other hots on this multiwire branch circuit and the grounded conductor becomes open between the active loads and the panel, you will be left holding a hot white wire that you think is not energized.
Don

Don

I know sometimes I can be relentless about things and I thank you for your patience.

I understand how this can happen in the electrical sense, but how would this happen in the field.

I am working on the two wire portion of the circuit and a neutral is going to open between me and the panel on it's own?

If we have to think in that way we should lock out an entire panel feeder when we work on any branch circuit.

If I am working on a branch circuit at the same time the panel lost its neutral I am going to end up with a live neutral again.

Bob

Office cubes or free standing hazard. The office cube argument about if you tie the breakers, then when one circuit goes out you loose all the circuits. Yup you do lose the other circuits, but you may save a 20 or 40 million dollar building. Just think of all the hazards with 3 wire circuits, and compare that with upset office manager.

Bob,
Yes that too can be a problem, and I don't really know where to draw the line. I keep telling the people at work that we have to lock out the 33kV feeder to the plant to work on anything.
Don

Don, You "Rock" (equal to cool)

Thanks for your time, Bob