0 members (),
192
guests, and
14
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
OP
Member
|
(Relative to residential installations...the reason why this came up is that I recently saw literature for "BRK Electronics" smoke alarms that states a maximum of 12 alarms can be interconnected. Further research indicated that the UL imposed this limit.)
Has anyone ever had a situation where more than 12 alarms are needed?
To keep this as simple as possible, let's use an example house without getting into attics, basements, etc.
Bedrooms - 1 alarm per room = 5 alarms Living Room = 1 alarm Dining Room = 1 alarm Den = 1 alarm Top of staircases = 3 alarms Hallways = 3 alarms
Again, this is just an example, so there may be locations where an alarm should be, or locations where an alarm should not be due to false alarms.
According to this example, there are 14 alarms.
From what I understand, according to various codes, all new-construction houses must have interconnected alarms.
How does one handle such a situation?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,383 Likes: 7
Member
|
TG: There are alarms made and available that are interconnectable in quantity higher than the 12 for the BRK
Firex is one brand.
I don't dabble in resi, but there are units available
John
John
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
Moderator
|
At that point I am thinking a Fire Alarm Panel with smokes, heats, horn strobes and maybe some pull stations. But that is just the commercial side of me. Is that done in large single family dwellings? Bob
Bob Badger Construction & Maintenance Electrician Massachusetts
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
Member
|
Bob, i get beat out of the smokes on most high end residentials due to thier low v interface with everything else pulls & strobes then become a more viable option with the low-v panel for the most part, they become part of the burgler alarm setup guess i should throw these gems into this thread too
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
Moderator
|
Unless local codes intervene, the simplest thing would be to have two zones. Split as upstairs/downstairs, or day/night occupied. That may also minimize confusion of tracking down where the event occurred. Having some central control/reporting may be response time wasted in a residential setup, and kill any advantage of isolated systems. Of course, building occupants {er, parents} should be well aware of multiple alarm zones.
[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 09-16-2003).]
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
Member
|
If you install a control panel with smokes you will still be required to have the interconnect system. We tried to install 24v Fire Panel only, and every time they required the interconnect system also be installed. From what i understand the reason is the owner may discontinue the security service and the fire part would not be kept in working order. We found that most low voltage fire systems are not installed to meet UL requirements, such as smokes not supervised, wrong sounding devices, sloppy wiring and much more. The required interconnect devices at least provide basic protection if they are tested by mfg. instructions.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
Member
|
LK, I'm a little confused here. I don't mess with alarms much but I know that, on the couple of monitored systems I've touched, I can go in and cut the phone lines to the monitoring company and not affect the integrety of the local system one whit. All pulls, smokes, and local alarm will still function 100%. Why would they cry about a system that is inherently better in the first place (assuming it was installed and inspected originally)?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
OP
Member
|
Thanks for the quick and informative responses!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
Member
|
My experience with smoke detection setups for dwellings, specifically, one & two family, is that there are at least three AHJs having authority per installation. - Electrical Inspector for the wiring (if any).
- Building Inspector for the placement of the detectors per building code.
- Fire Marshall for the placement of the detectors per fire code.
Since the Fire Marshall and Building Inspector don't share each and every page of the same code one gets different requirements quoted as gospel, depending upon who's talking. I have learned that the first duty of the system is to increase the chance of survival of any occupant present at the time of a fire, and that all else is secondary. Because of the larger amount of time individual occupants spend sleeping, special attention is paid to placing the detectors and their alarms so as to wake the sleeper. If the system also contacts a remote supervisory service, fine, but that is extra. Here, the code(s) language(s) that is(are) enforced results in line powered interconnected battery backup smoke detectors with integral alarms being the least cost for new construction. Devices integrated with a central security package can not be substituted for this. I've seen interface relays used for the smokes to communicate with the security system, but, in my experience, supervised system installers don't want to support the interface. So, as a result, I've seen both systems installed side by side.
Al Hildenbrand
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 123
Member
|
To respond to the original post, we have a similar rule in Canada. On a residential circuit, the limit is 12 devices or 85% amperage of the overcurrent device, which ever is the 'lesser'. Even though the draw on a smoke is minimal, the limit is still 12.
|
|
|
Posts: 806
Joined: October 2004
|
|
|
|