ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Auto electrics

I had the pleasure of completely rewiring my grandfathers restored 1937 two door chevy coupe. Rebuilt everything from the lighting sockets to the horn. Very enjoyable as now we have three generations of work in the vehicle. My grandfather restored the body etc., my dad retored the motor and other mechanical parts. The main resotartion is now about 25 years old and I drive the ca in the local parades.

Shane

Sven,
you'll have to replace those lamps, what, two or three times in the life of the car?

>It's bad enough that they're making these lights so bright that the oncoming traffic >practically blinds you.

Sorry Sven, but unless you have some other type of lamp on your side of the pond, that's nonsense, in my humble opinion.

Paul,
I've been told that the daytime running lights were 'invented' after WWII by British and American military drivers who discovered that they didn't have as many accidents if they kept the lights on.

Sorry for the threadjack, back to auto electrics:

I work in a company that makes a heavily modified GoldWing motorcycle. Since it has a big hydraulic system and a controls for this, there are lot's of wires. Extra fuse box, relay box and so on. It has two tow-bar outlets, one for the lights on the trailer and one for the lifting controls.

Believe it or not, but we've even put a small screen in the dashboard and a rear view camera behind the driver.

Here's a link


[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 09-10-2003).]

What's the environmental impact of replacing the lights on 100 million cars two or three times? (I doubt they both would be replaced that often - or rather I hope not since the car I'm driving now has DRLs)

Interesting stuff rom the first link in PaulUK's second post:

" The first, last and only large scale U.S. study that has been completed and published on the effects of DRLs as safety devices, was conducted by the insurance industry supported Highway Loss Data Institute. The results; vehicles equipped with DRLs were involved in more accidents than similar vehicles without DRLs. The difference was minimal. but the meaning was strait forward, DRLs aggravate other motorists, obscure directional lights, waste fuel, "mask" other road users that don't have headlights on, or don't have headlights period (pedestrians and bicyclists) and their net effect on accident reduction is zero or worse."

More significant:

"If daytime running lights were on all the vehicles in the U.S., we would burn an extra 406 million gallons of gas each year. That's only a couple gallons for each vehicle, but in total it is more than all of the vehicles in the country burn in a day. At $1.50 a gallon, that's $600 million per year. Looking at it another way, an extra 8 billion pounds of Carbon Dioxide would be added to the atmosphere by this law."

That's not even mentioning the waste of materials in manufacturing the things and their wiring, or the extra drag on the front end of the vehicle where the lights/lenses are installed, or the extra weight, or cost added to all vehicles.

If we want to improve safety, how about requirements for making turn signals more visible at wider angles (seem like the more money you spend on a car, the less functional its lights are), or brake lights installed on the front of vehicles, or redundant wiring for critical lamps or corrosion-proof sockets and wiring? Shouldn't vehicles over a certain weight (say 4000 pounds) be governed to 75 mph max? All non-emergency vehicles? That would save a lot of lives and property damage. I do see some value in running lights though (but maybe not enough to justify their existance)- like when one headlight burns out your car won't look like a motorcycle at night.

What cars really need are arc fault current inter...

The new 42V system for cars will have arc extinguishing connectors, to prevent fire in case they come apart from vibration.

CH said:


Sorry CH, I should have said regular headlights, not DRLs.

In the past few years we've gotten a new type of headlight on cars here. It's something that throws off a VERY BRIGHT, intense ice-blue light. It's usually part of the package on luxury cars (like Lexus).

When you're used to the old cars with the square and round sealbeams and the halogens, you look at these things and it's like these folks have the high-beams on all the time.

Those, if they catch you in the rear view mirror do run the chance of blinding you. I don't know who's bright idea these lights were.

What's worse is that most of these lights are found on the high-end sector of the massive 4x4 utility trucks (Lincoln Navigator, Cadillac Escalade, etc.). These things have a very high wheel base, so it's like you get the light shining right through your rear window and into the mirror.

ROTFL! Yeah, they overdo it on some models these days don't they?

I know what Sven means about the intense blue headlights. They've started appearing here as well, and most seem to be very small diameter lights, so the beam just in front of the car is very concentrated. They might be great for seeing WITH, but they're blinding to everyone else, even on low beam.

One thing I won't get involved with is the ECUs (engine computers) on late-model cars. Without the appropriate diagnostic tools for these modern contraptions it's almost impossible to get the thing running as the manufacturer intended. So check for connections, burned out sensors, etc., but that's about it.

Having an interest in old cars I much prefer working on the wiring of these. You could even change panel lights on many by just reaching up behind the dash. It means getting into an awkward position admittedly, but it's not that difficult. On a lot of the newer models it takes 2 hours to work out how to get the dash apart, 2 minutes to change the bulb, then another hour to get everything back together again.

I just bought a new work truck, 2003 GMC with a Reading body. Seems like a nice truck.
Opened the hood and their is a 10" sq. plastic box on the left front inner fender. Take the cover off and their are literally 50 fuses in there. In the dash there is another 20 or so. Walk over to my 67 Mustang and there is like 6 fuses total My how things have changed

Small aside—looks like you have to be an SAE member to get the details, but there is www.sae.org/42volt [and ]www.42volt.com]




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 09-10-2003).]

Gotta weigh in on DRL here. The statement about the"first, last, and only study" is a bunch of bull. One of the early controlled experiments was from Greyhound. My dad owned stock in them and all kinds of interesting stuff showed up in the mail. They studied their fleet with and without DRL. A nice, controlled test - same vehicles, same routes. Using DRL resulted in a 5% reduction in accidents. The cost and pollution arguements could be applied to almost anything in a car. There is a certain cost to safety and it's based on the good to society as a whole. The 2 or 3 replacements is also fradulent. It was estimated that full voltage low beams would have to be replaced 2 or 3 times in the life of a car and that was considered unacceptable. That's why reduced voltage systems were designed. No anticipated bulb failure in the life of the car.

Whatever the rights or wrongs, the lighting wiring has certainly gotten more complex - To the extent that many DIY car people with only basic electrical knowledge can't figure it out.

Cars sold in the U.K. aren't required to have DRLs, but since 1986 or thereabouts they've been fitted with a "dim-dip" device. (Note: In British terminology low beams are often called "dipped beams," hence we also have a "dip switch" rather than a dimmer switch).

The dim-dip wiring is arranged so that with the light switch in the parking-light position you get reduced power applied to the low-beam headlights when the ignition is turned on.

Another peculiarity that seems to be fitted to some European cars is that when the ignition is off the turn signal switch can be used to illuminate front parking & tail lights on one side of the car only. You'll sometimes see cars parked at the curb with just their left park/tail lights on during the day, where the driver signaled left to pull in and park and the switch didn't get canceled after he stopped.