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#27177 07/03/03 10:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
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What would it hurt to add 1 or 2 tandem breakers in a 200 amp 40 circuit panel. There's plenty of room for neutrals and grounds. It won't overload the buss, it would be perfectly code acceptable to put 1 or even 2 or 3 - 100 amp sub panel off the same buss, so what does it hurt to squeeze in one more circuit rather than forcing a customer to pay for a sub panel? Don't just point out code referrences that disallow it, but the real harm it could cause. Thanks.

#27178 07/03/03 10:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 507
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We do it all the time. If we don't our competition will and I don't consider it a safety issue.

GJ

#27179 07/03/03 10:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
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what would it hurt?

if we expose the NEC as a document of arbitrary bench marks with flimsey rationale to substaintiate it, the NFPA may fold like a cheap K-mart table..

the trade as we know it will cease to exist

[Linked Image]

#27180 07/03/03 11:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
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Well Sparky, What good is the NEC if they have black and white rules that sometimes aren't safety issues. I think the NEC is needed and without it and licensing we would have a lot of unsafe conditions created. But an answer basically saying the NEC is the law, right or wrong, and we should abide doesn't cut it with me. Do you ever go a little faster than the speed limit when you drive?

#27181 07/04/03 07:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 558
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The question in my mind would be where would the line be drawn,and who would draw it?

If you could add 1 or 2 why not 3 or 4?

Btw Eagle, I read an article in the AJC that said a DOT study showed that the average speed on I-285 was 85 mph. That would meanroughly 50% are going over 85 mph.

That tells me that if there were no limits,some would have a lot more than 1 or 2 tandems if they could get away with it. Just mho.

Russell

[This message has been edited by ga.sparky56 (edited 07-04-2003).]

#27182 07/04/03 07:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
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Quite simply, absolutely nothing.

#27183 07/04/03 09:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
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I do agree that you have to draw a line somewhere, but I see more harm in putting 5 - 100 amp sub panels off 1 - 200 amp service than adding 2 circuits to a 40 circuit panel. Yet the 5 sub panels would be allowed.

#27184 07/04/03 10:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
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First
The 2 sparky's have, IMHO given very good answers, especially the 1st one.
Scott, I also think you are right about the bus, but another reason to think about is the gutter space. Sometimes trying to find where a wire leads to in a panel is dificult at best and unsafe, also heat dissipation is a consideration, and the manufacturers have only tested their panels to these specs.
One of the hard parts of being a concerned contractor is the consideration of a customers needs (including financial).
If you have 42 existing circuits, and you need 1 or 2 more the dilema is, new subpanel or twin breakers. It can be a tough decision, only you can make.
I will ask one more thing - What separates the professional from the nonprofessional?

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
#27185 07/04/03 12:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,294
Member
The average residential panel is generally so lightly loaded at any one time that I don't see it as much of a safety issue. The load on the bus is only going to change by the amount of additional things put on it.
You could put 20 subpanels in a 40 circuit panel, and not increase the load at all.
Eagle, is there a reason that you can't increase the # to 42 anyway??
Commercial work could be a completely different story, however.

#27186 07/04/03 04:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
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Electure, I have never seen a residential type panel that allows more than 40 circuits.

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