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Joined: Apr 2002
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Creighton, apparantly most of the manufacturers haven't read that section. The tandems for Square D and Cutler Hammer will fit on any spot in any of their panels. Siemens makes tandems that will only fit on spaces designed for them, but also makes one that will fit any spot in their panels, Murray, ITE, Gould, Westinghouse, Challenger, and GE. These are labeled "for replacement use only".
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Don
Have you ever seen any panel board listed for more than 42 circuits? If so could you please post the manufacturer's site so we can take a look? Thanks
Pierre
Pierre Belarge
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Electric Eagle
I install many Square D (QO & Homeline) and Cutler-Hammer loadcenters and the tandem breakers will NOT fit in any position. You must be using the old style breakers that are for replacement use only. The QO tandem breakers have a hook on them that will only fit in designated positions and the Homeline/Cutler-Hammer BR Breakers have a clip on the end of the breakers that will only fit on notched busses. I don't use any Cutler-Hamer CH so I don't know how their CTL feature works.
Curt
Curt Swartz
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It seems to me, it is this idiot-proof mentality we have, not unlike being politically correct. I think like anything else, the nec goes over board. Arc-faults! All kitchen counter recept's to be gfi, no matter what the distance from the sink is. Marketing maybe ?$?$?$? The 6 switch per service rule, is that for derating reasons?? As for the tandem breakers, it is getting to the point where any house above 2500 sq. ft, requires twin 150's, not because of the load, but because of the circuits required to be dedicated. Dont get me wrong, I agree with the dedicating, but as for overloading a service, that is what calculations and main ocp's are for.
John
[This message has been edited by scjohn (edited 07-12-2003).]
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Pierre, I have installed GE and Square D power panels that had more than 42 poles. This Square D document shows 54, 72 and 84 space panels, but notes that the 72 and 84 space panels are for use in Canada only.
Don(resqcapt19)
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Everybody likes to bring up the issue of power panels. I think they are not included because most of them don't have the ampacity for a large number of circuits. Most of the ones I've seen usually have a maximum of 12 breakers in them bucause the continuous load uses up all the capacity.
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Curt, you can break out the limiting parts in a Square D panel, and put in anything you want. All it takes is a screwdriver, and a hammer.
What a shame...S
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you'll please excuse me if i post today's e-mailing that seem to befit this thread.... Please join me in saying good-bye.... Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend by the name of Common Sense who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valued lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm and that life isn't always fair.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies
(don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not kids, are in charge).
His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Report of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, a teen suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Finally, Common sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee "was hot," spilled it in her lap, and was awarded a lot of money.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
Author Unknown
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Donnie
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As Don says, only lighting and appliance panels are to be limited to 42 spaces. If by adding one or two mini's would not the number of total Breakers grow to 43 or 44 ? Which would violate the 408.15.
As far as the power panel goesby definition is to have 10 percent or less lighting and appliance circuits. and the rest are to be power circuits.
As far as putting in the minis I have seen electricians remove the 'fail-safe' installed in Siemens minis, and break-out the plastic in Square-D(homeline) breakers just to make them fit. This goes along with the statement of 408.15 that these panels shall be provided with a means to prevent the installation of any such breakers.
But doesnt this come down to picking and choosing the rules we comply with. In that case we could cram what 84 breakers into a 42 space panel, now that would be over stuffed.
WmColt
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