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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931
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G
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There is a story floating around blaming the gas industry for blocking a proposal to the ICC energy codes to prewire homes for solar, EV chargers and "all electric" appliances.
My first thought was, "isn't this NFPA and CMP2 that makes these decisions"?
I also understand this will add thousands to the rough of a home but it wouldn't be the first time NFPA or ICC rammed an extra cost down our throats whether we wanted it or not.
What are your thoughts on this?
I still wonder where the power to replace gas will come from. We are decommissioning plants faster that new plants are being built and faster than alternate energy/battery storage is coming on line. There is also the problem of distribution and transmission. We already have a transformer shortage and NIMBY keeps a lot of transmission lines from being built. If we waved a magic wand and made gas disappear, people in the North East would freeze.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/icc-iecc-building-codes-energy-climate_n_65f89e3de4b030e8357af5cc


Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Apr 2022
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I think the NEC is staying out of it due to 90.2 the purpose of the NEC is practical safety, not a design manual.
Years back when they wanted to put mandatory voltage drop requirements back in the code the NEC refused so they put it in the Energy code, which is now adopted in most states.
Here in the rural pacific north west we never had much other than propane, nat gas just in larger towns.
The free market is eliminating propane on its own.
With all the rate increases in propane plus hidden fees in propane delivery, tank rental etc, people are switching to heat pumps and electric ranges without the government lifting a finger, but here we have cheap hydro power.

Last edited by tortuga; 03/27/24 12:13 PM.
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Article 220 is all about load factors and that is essentially what this proposal addressees. We also talk about design issues throughout Article 210 with all of the required circuits so this is not unexplored territory. Backdooring these changes in the energy code only adds to confusion.
I agree natural gas and fossil fuel generation is now as big an issue in the PNW but that is not where most people live. With the exception of Niagara Falls, there is not a lot of hydro east of the Rockies. It is also very unlikely we will ever build another big dam. They are tearing out existing ones to restore natural river flow.


Greg Fretwell
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Our Governor here in NJ is hell bent on offshore wind farms. One developer (Orstad) already backed out of the lease they had. They said finance issues, and the supply chain issues, but there is a LOT of people complaining about their view of the open ocean.

That said, there is another offshore developer in the woodpile recently, and there are a lot of 'jobs' that are promised 'on shore' down by the Delaware Bay area for landline connection and staging prep.

Also, there are 'local' ordinances that are requiring EV charger facilities in 'other than 1-2 family residential.

And, yes there are many 'service upgrades' along with the EV charger installs. Now, we crank up the 3 or 4 HVAC units on a nice summer evening, and cross our fingers that the grid can handle it.


John
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The more I read about this the more it looks like 2 code merchants beefing with ICC trying to take NFP70 away from NFPA. They already have their own electric code section numbered in their "style" (Florida adopts) and it is pretty much the NEC up until now.

Here is another spin on it
https://www.canarymedia.com/article...new-building-codes-will-make-that-harder


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Apr 2022
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Originally Posted by gfretwell
We also talk about design issues throughout Article 210 with all of the required circuits so this is not unexplored territory. Backdooring these changes in the energy code only adds to confusion.
I do sympathize with a resi EC that just wants one code book to refer to, but commercial industrial has really expanded way beyond the NEC.

Allot of what a commercial electrical designer/engineer deals with is now in the energy code anyways;
Lighting, transformer efficiency, voltage drop, motor efficiency..
I have to submit compliance with all that stuff.
Then there is all the life safety egress lighting, stand by systems, and fire alarm codes...
ADA height requirements for electrical..
For a typical retail store design I way have more plan checks in other codes than the NEC.
Even something as simple as a E-stop for a gas station is affected by a different code.

The outlet spacing and design stuff for residential in the NEC 210 dates back to the 1930's when people used extension cords tapped off lighting pendants and it was causing fires thus falls in the 90.2 scope.

Just my 2 cents.


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