ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues "Dry Run" Inspection goes awry

I hope it is not out of line for me to pose an inspector question rather than a contractor one.

Being in limbo until I receive my Residential Electrical Inspector license from the Fire Marshal, I had the opportunity for a “dry run” without much consequence, or so I thought.

Long story longer (those that know me can appreciate that, I am a story teller), it all started when my girlfriend told me that a mutual friend was getting a service inspected by our local notoriously bad inspector in a few days, would I mind taking a look to see our friend's son, an aspiring electrician, has done well. Sure, why not. The owner is at work but she gives me permission to take a look and so my girlfriend and I go.

A pole mounted service, deemed both temporary and an RV service with corresponding RV receptacle.

The first thing I saw pulling up was the lack of straps on the PVC mast going up the pole, while coming close to complying with (NEC 2014) 352.30, The local PoCo likes the spirit of 230.51 even for conduit.

The second thing I saw was a ground rod sticking about 4ft out of the ground, but I have to admit the soil was very rocky. That particular rod did not have a GEC attached, so upon further looking, I did see two bent over rods, about 4 to 6” above the ground and 2ft long with some #4 bare Cu (I guess they didn't know they could have used #6). So, noncompliance with 250.32g

Sigh, okay, let me grab a legal pad and pen...

So let's look at the 15A receptacle box under the combo meter/disco and lo and behold, no in-use cover and no GFCI. (Jeez, where did this kid get his license? Cracker Jacks?)

Time to look in the meter base... Oh Crap!! Wasps!!!! (Lesson #1: Wasp and Hornet Spray!!)

And then... Oh crap. USE!! 338.12b(2)

Then I notice the lumber used isn't treated or painted, and there is no intersystem bonding bridge.

Then my girlfriend being wiser than me says, “I'm calling her and telling her you can't get past the wasps to look at it.”

“What?” I stupidly reply.

“Trust me. Don't get involved. It can't go well for you.”

I say, okay fine, I guess it would be better if the other inspector fails her rather than telling her to comply with my wishes.

Well.... Get this.

He passed it.

My business partner agrees we have to stop this menace and wants me to get the work order number off of the sticker. I don't know how to approach this without simply trespassing.

What would you do?

Trust your girlfriend.

If you really want to address this, I would talk to the aspiring electrician one on one and just discuss the things you have a concern with. If he is really new and you can just look at the code together, he might decide you are right and everyone can stay friends. Start on the basis that you are both new and you are learning together.
He might end up telling you that is just the way they do things around there (particularly the ground rod thing) and that is the way it is.
The other option is to go to the IAEI (or other trade group) meetings and see what the other inspectors say about those issues.
When I was working, I worked across 6 or 7 jurisdictions for the state and I was surprised how people could read the same document and make such different interpretations.

You got that right!! LOL "She who is wiser than me"

As far as mentoring this young man, I absolutely look forward to the opportunity. I completely agree with you, and well stated. That's why I love this Website!!

However, my business partner has been an inspector in these parts for 12 years now, and his only competition and been this joker. He wants to retire and give me his established business.

To illustrate the lack of integrity of the notorious inspector:
He lately did 22 inspections in one day post-flood that you probably heard about on the news last July. How can one do 22 in one day and do a thorough inspection?

I don't mind eliminating competition that is incompetent.

We are likely to pursue a formal complaint on this one.

Virgil:

Like Greg said, listen to your girlfriend.

Pick your battles very, very carefully. Being a 'new sheriff' in town can be a challenge to all concerned. And, choosing your words very carefully, within comments about the contractors, or 'other' inspectors.

OK, I'm in NJ, with a large population of "those" one, or some of which could possibly locate the 'referenced' parties via some form of todays vast social media, and go for liable.

The last thing you may want is to get known with a situation like that.

Just IMHO, my friend from the past who returned. Think about doing an 'edit'.

Once upon a time, I believed the rules were important and I memorized the code book.

Then, I worked in an industrial building where they paralleled wires that were too small, oversized motor overloads to avoid tripping and even ran a conduit and pulled only a neutral wire into it because the load was fed from a different panel but this one was closer when they needed the extra wire.

The rules have changed so things that were once prohibited became legal and, in some cases, required.

I told an inspector about a row house complex in which the stoves were wired with undersized wire, and no one did anything.

I built an equipment skid using all approved equipment and it failed the insulation test because some parts only pass the insulation test sitting on the bench. Installed, with all necessary wires, they arc between line and low voltage.

I installed a GFCI on an approved steamer for a tub and it tripped the breaker because it only kept the neutral isolated from the ground with the power off. CSA told me to remove the GFCI.

I requested an amendment to our code and they refused to give it to the committee, because the committee was rewriting the section and I think they didn't want them bothered with facts, or something like that.

Now that I'm old and try to restrict my work to maintenance, I find that other electricians have found a way to reduce the cost of junction boxes and the labour to install them. The don't put covers on. At first I installed the covers, but it's way beyond what I can reasonably fix. Sometimes it's the number of boxes and other times the wires don't fit into the box.

Now, we need to put arc fault breakers on most circuits in a house. Sure, all fires are electrical fires but I wonder if anyone studied how many start with a arc.

I take pictures. Not of my work, but the work beside mine. If I get a rejection on my work, I'm going to complain that I'm being held to a different standard - or a standard.

Be careful or you'll become a target yourself and someone else will be looking at your work to see if they can get your licence pulled. Maybe you will get sued and end up working to give money to lawyers and the guy you slandered. If you think it's upsetting to see what he passes, try going to work to pay him to sit at home.

It appears to be all bull. Those in control don't want problems. They'll ignore you and if you don't go away, they'll see you as being the problem.

Let me say, this thread could have more tangents than a trig table! I opens all manner of directions the conversation could flow.

I have three somewhat conflicting takes on the original topic.

First off, I have yet to see any job where there is nothing that can be questioned / challenged / nit-picked. Heck, sometimes I even question my own work.

Second, there are countless instances where what we are taught is 'right' is, in fact, not supported by the code. For example, the current mania for running a ground wire in EMT, and the "requirement" for each hot to have its' own neutral wire. You might say our standards greatly exceed code.

Finally, my faith in inspections is right up there with my belief in Sasquatch. It's been my experience that inspectors go to seminars where two or three things are harped on, and these things are all the inspector cares about until the next seminar.

(As an example, I simply loved the way my inspector pulled out a tape measure to make sure my ground rods were six feet apart - when they were actually eleven feet apart. He was most surprised! Good grief, they were in plain site without obstruction- and he needed a tape measure? The look on his face was priceless; at least he didn't try to argue they had to be exactly six feet apart.)

I tend to agree with the seminar thing. When I was going to the IAEI "lunch" regularly and my wife was building houses I would come home and warn her what the next crusade would be. I was usually right and she had the warning so her jobs were ready for the inspector.

The EMT and GEC thing was pretty much solved with RNC. The EMT will not hold up in the weather here so you seldom see it on GECs. No City hubs, no bonding bushings (if the guy is pedantic). Life is easy.
These days the UFER is in the Florida building code, a punch on the footer inspection so rods are becoming a thing of the past anyway. The #4 usually comes out of the wall behind the panel so protection is not an issue.
My "tape measure" for 6' things like this is my outstretched arms and a calibrated eyeball .
Five feet is wrist to wrist. I certainly would not bust someone for a half inch.

Thanks for the valuable advice, guys! I have a knack for controversy!

Having the reputation of a "Code Nerd" in these parts (mostly the fault of ECN!), I was asked to become an inspector twelve or so years ago and declined. I'm glad I got the experience on the "other side of the fence" first so I would be a fair inspector now.

That is the part I worry about. I want folks to hire me more than once. I don't want the reputation of a hard @$$. Ground rods are something I will likely be a tad lenient about, knowing the terrain. Bend the things over with some MAP gas so they don't spring back up and bury what you have left over after hitting solid rock and I'll be happy with it. I've had mining electricians tell horror stories of having thousands of feet of copper pipe in graphite infused soil to get 25 Ohms. GE's don't do much in clay, shale and limestone rock.

I just need to learn what codes can be somewhat gray area and which ones should be more black and white as far as safety and longevity is concerned.

This other guy has "been called to the carpet" before to answer for questionable inspections. I never want to make that walk.

Some more background:

My business partner and I first met when I hired him for an inspection after being warned that he was a tough one.

We became instant friends.

Steve is a man of great integrity and he has given me this opportunity to take over his established business, which is priceless to me.

This new adventure is exciting, but there is also anxiety. I want to make him proud. I want to make ECN proud. I want to make ME proud.

Stay tuned for more queries! There will be more!

Thanks again my friends!

What would happen if you were to have been on site when the other inspector was doing the "inspection", besides a cat fight?

Great question.

I would retreat! He was called first, so it is his baby.

I hope he is willing to pay "child support"!

I have to say the inspection side always looked like it required a lot of patience Virgil

It appears you've managed to find some, so go you!

~S~

Would like to comment about the variation in thoroughness of inspections by comparing two here in Southern Maine. Different municipalities, different inspectors. I won't name either. Both jobs were interior renovations - new walls, new receptacles on old walls, new lighting. Both commercial (office space).

In the first, *everything* was critiqued. Ceiling tiles were moved, labeling was scrutinized, even things that were there long before I arrived were picked on (I was required to identify and label some transformers that weren't even associated with the same tenant, and had been there for 20+ years...)

Different location, 15 miles distance per Google, one year later -- bigger job twofold -- guy walks in, looks at one outlet and one junction box, suggests I add another EXIT sign, and is done.



The classic "new service" residential inspection in my home town, further north, is done by the power company, as there is no local inspector. This may have changed, as I haven't done work up there in some ten years, but last time I did, the whole thing was basically, "main breaker? check. ground rod(s)? check. no gargantuan flameballs when we plug the meter in? check. you're good, have a nice day."

I used to like climbing ladders to see the stuff they thought I would not be looking at. (removing covers etc) That will give you a better idea about the things they plan for you to look at. Covering 5 counties, my travel time could be 3 hours so it seemed silly to me to do a drive by inspection. Besides I just like looking at stuff and working for the state, they had some cool stuff.

I knew 1 'inspector' who joked that he slowly drove past the site. If there were no visible smoke or flames he would sign off on it.

During the housing boom (2004-5) drive by inspections were not that rare. Guys were leaving the shop with 40+ cards in their pocket spread out across the whole county. There was barely time enough to sign the permits and drive to the next one. I was happy to miss that mess. By then I was out but I did have offers to be a contract guy for an engineering company doing 1&2 family. I passed.

Some inspectors may figure that if they inspect one random house out of 20 done by the same electrical contractor, and find no problems at the random house, he'll figure all the houses are good and pass them all.

Personally, "drive bys" at the end of the day do not do anybody good.

If I ever left the office with 40 cards spread over the 32 sq. miles of the Twp., it would be a very, very long day. Again, the 'load' depends on what the jobs are, and IF they are 'all over'. We had a 'flash' guy back a few years that said he has a 'sticker gun'!! He didn't last to long.

A good day at the ranch is 10-12 each for my inspectors (2) and 6-9 for me. On a 'bad day' when I'm the 'lone ranger' it supposed to cap out at 14.

FYI, doing one unit out of 20 could result in some serious issues with the DCA here in NJ.

It was the Sunday before he was scheduled the next day, so no danger in that.

I must say that I have learned a lot with this new experience, and have found myself wanting to be more an educator than an enforcer. My repeat ECs are learning what I like to see and the Joe Homeowners get some free advice, and as long as we can resolve those issues within 24 hours, I'll put an approved sticker on it and withhold the Cut-In-Card until I have seen pics texted to me of the issues I have specified being resolved. It it a way to make the installation pass without having to fail them. Go technology.

That was always my philosophy but I was paid by the state, overseeing state employees so it was less ambiguous about whether I should be "instructing".
We were on the leading edge of the email picture thing around the turn of the century but 8-9 years later when I was building my addition, the inspectors on the project were doing a lot of "send me a picture" stuff.
It was always "by the close of business" when they had to turn in their inspection reports. That saved us both extra time and money.

Advice to HOs is frowned upon for a multitude of legal reasons, both by the twp and the State. Words are chosen carefully; in 'bad' situations..."call a Lic. EC"

Being fair is no problem, my mantra is 'you get one shot at "trust" to correct minor issues'. Last I heard, pics are not acceptable in the States eyes.

Go technology!!!

Thanks. Since I have the blessing of my boss/business partner with 11 years experience and with the intention of giving me his established and successful business when he retires in two years, I will continue what we consider to be "business policy" (remember rogue inspector mentioned in another thread that is our main competition)...

I intend to ask our representative with the WVIAEI when we have our CEU classes in a couple of weeks. It will be a conversation outside of class and off the record. His name is Jack Jamison, Jr. and is a "walking code book" according to my partner. Reminds me of my mentors here! Thanks, by the way.