ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues 110.26 C Clearences

I understand that the code is permissive. If it is not precluded, it is allowed.

In fact I do not see anything that says both "doors" can't be accessed by a fixed ladder.
That may be a horrible design but I am having a hard time coming up with code language that says it is not allowed.

two exits are required by code due to size Ect .
One door that is required is per Code .
Where second door is required there is a Fixed metal ladder
to another level.
As I read it two doors are Required.(push to release hardware.
Not one door one ladder. If a guys injured
pretty hard to climb Ladder.

All of my experiences with my AHJ tell me that such a significant switch room would not be acceptable without two door egresses.

Climbing a ladder would not be accepted -- at all.

The sole and only reason for door #2 is a panic withdrawal -- which is assumed to be an earthquake out here in California.

Our practice would be to cut in an extra door -- period.

%%%

The idea of emergency personnel entering the room to turn off switches -- in a smoke filled space -- coming down a ladder -- would be a complete non-starter.

The expense and delay in installing the extra access door would be considered immaterial.

For such a touchy item, you're going to have to get design approval from the AHJ.

Nothing else will matter.

The AHJ generally gets to do anything they want but I do not see the rule you are enforcing.

The AHJ has the Job of enforcement but cannot do what he wants!He must have a code section to back him up. He does have the Responsibility of making interpretations when the rules are not clear! Thus my Question.
I don't feel you can have a ladder at one or both ends by the code. I feels that;s not the intent of the code but I like to get the opinion of others .

Yoop:

OK, I'm an AHJ. As I said above, a floor plan w/dimensions will help a lot.

IF your room conforms to 110.26 (C) (a) (b) you only require a single door; again dimensions are required for a final answer.

IF the above complies, then the ladder is moot, as well as the other door.

IF the second egress is required; then I would cite Article 100 Definitions (Accessible as applied to equipment)

IMHO, the intent of 110.26 egress is to provide an accessible without obstacle path for emergency situations, and a ladder to a higher or lower elevation is non-compliant as a second egress path.

The back & forth debate about my decision would be during Plan Review. I will hang my hat on the above Article.

The CEC and Building codes have plenty of extras that don't make it to the national level.

Indeed, San Fransisco and Oakland have additional provisions that are city specific.

(Oakland mimicks San Francisco right down the line.)

I've seen many a J-man get shot down here as they cite the NEC.

The local chief inspector whips out the addendums that were part of the building permit process -- and the Poco addendums....

And thus, my experiences don't usually dovetail with the standards of the other 49 states. I usually mention that in my posts.

In my part of the world, it's a total waste of time trying to cleverly scheme around, to 'value engineer'a job. You get yourself shot down every time.

I used to do so. Then I got wise. In my market, all such endeavors just set you back.

I leave all sticky design issues to the project EE, Architects or the Project Manager. When I'm the progect manager/ EC, I stay with clean, simple solutions that are easy on the troops -- even if they use more costly materials. This philosophy is specific to my commercial niche. I can see that it would not be a winner for anyone cranking out volume -- or having really expensive materials at issue.

As for a Code citation, I'd expect my AHJ to cite wording about ladder-stairs not being an acceptable egress in emergency conditions... The only conditions that compel one to use door #2. The two-door rule is in the Code for emergencies only -- not step savings. You can see such wording in the Handbook.

Like I've said SEVERAL times BY 110.26 the Second doorway by the NEC CODE is required!!
The Question I've posed was Again.
Can the Second REQUIRED doorway be a Ladder! Or even the ist when 2 doorways are required. I feel doors or openings are required NOT ladder ways!
Thank you for the respones

2011 NEC 11.26 (C) 2 Clearly states where & when the second exit is required. (((Rated over 1200 amps and over six feet wide containing OCP))).
(a) unobstructed Egress
(B) Extra working space
neither of which apply in this case.
Where in the code does it say two door rule for emergencies ???
I have the 2011 NEC handbook also.

Yoop:

You are right, there is no mention of 'emergencies' within the NEC about two doors.

NO ladder would be allowed at either egress. I stand on what I say above re: Art 100. The term 'Emergency' is a common reach around when 'panic hardware' is mentioned; ie 'Emergency Exit'.

Common Exit signs are referred to as "Emergency Exits" which is what they are! 110.26 EGRESS issues are a topic of debate on quite a few Plan Review jobs.

BTW, I Referenced the '14 NEC as my others are in the office.