ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Proposal: Make Transfer Switch Mandatory?

Truth be told, I made my own ... but don't tell the U/L police.
I used 1/8" aluminum for the sliding plate and brackets on both sides to locate the plate. It effectively interlocks the 2 breakers and that is the intent.

Why can't you just have a secondary box next to the panel that has 2 contactors that close (one opens) on supply failure and feeds only the essential circuits of any given house and a male inlet on the outside of the building, to connect the generator to?
When the supply is re-instated the contactors revert to their "normal" state.

I suppose if they were mechanically interlocked and listed as transfer equipment, you could. For that matter you only need one with normally open and normally closed contacts.

Isn't that what an automatic transfer switch is anyway?

Mike, I'm sure it 'would' work. Nor have I any objection to field-made items.

I am not sure of the requirements in the testing standards. Perhaps there is required to be, as with reversing motor starters, both mechanical and electrical interlocks.

We're missing the point of my original post, though. I'm not really asking about 'how' to do this.

What I was asking was: Has the use of generators, especially little portable ones, become so common that we should instal a means of connecting them when we do a service? Should the code require us to do so?

It's easy to over-think things, to get carried away with inspired engineering. So easy, it's easy to forget what we're really trying to do: eliminate any temptation for the consumer to rig up a 'suicide cord.' It amazes me that folks don't just run extension cords to a few essential appliances, but no, they want to get fancy.

If I can tie apposing breakers together, I can easily set a power 'inlet' by the panel. Flip the breaker and you can now plug in the generator. Folks will eventually figure out that the genny stalls if they try to run too much, and will manually shut off the unnecessary loads until the genny can run smoothly.

These points were emphasized for me on Dec. 26, when I lost power for nine hours. The gas furnace needed power for the blower - and a few lights would have been nice. All well within the abilities of the smallest generator.

While ECN is not a place for 'political' discussions, we have to recognize the political forces that have let our 'grid' decay over the past few decades. The experts warned us that this would happen, and were freely ridiculed by the activists. End result? We're going to see more power outages, and they will increase in both number and severity.

So, maybe it is time that all new services have some provision for hooking up a generator.

As much as the folks at BigGenerator, Inc., would like to sell us a whole-house system for big dollars, we need to recognize that Harry Homeowner is far more likely to get a portable generator at the local home center and try to tye it in himself. I'd like to tempt him into doing it safely.

Reno,

John had water problems and up here we have major tree problems. The POCO (JCP&L) Try to keep up with it. There are trees everywhere around here and if a branch isn't hitting a primary wire and blowing out the fuse on the pole. Then it would be most likely cause by squirrels. They like to get up on the primary and run along the wires. That isn't a problem till they decide to get off the wire 1 foot at a time and POW. 1 fried squirrel and 1 blown fuse. Sometimes the squirrel will drop and the reclosure will let the power flow again.

We also have people around here who do not want you to cut any trees at all. There is actually 1 town next to me that will prohibit the POCO from cutting trees. Guess what happen during Sandy! There were trees down on almost every street. The whole town was blacked out. They didn't get power for 12-14 days. It took a lot of time cutting up the trees.

John,

POCO is already trimming trees around here again. There are a lot of limbs still hanging from trees just waiting to land on the lines again. Last year when they were by my property trimming, I told them to take as much down as they wanted. I would rather have the power than the trees. They said that they were only allowed to trim 5' back from primary and 3 ' back from the secondary. They didn't want any extra work to do or clean up.

I should shoot you some pictures of what FPL does to trees but it can simply be called getting whacked in the Tony Soprano sense. If they don't cut it down they cut a hole in it you could fly a Huey through.

The have all had our fill of trees taking out the power.

That is one of the few times you can just whack a tree around here. If it is in the middle of your yard and you just want it gone, you may need a permit and maybe mitigation.
(unless it gets sick and dies )

We've all seen my picture of the huge log suspended in the air by the wire it grew around.

PoCo rules say to keep vegetation away from the wires. PoCo regs (at that place) place the burden on the property owner. Obvously, the issue was neglected for far too long. That tree wasn't removed until I was called to extend the service.

No sooner did the city come to inspect the new service than a furball ensued over that tree. Why, this desert city was a 'certified tree city' or some such, and you can't just remove trees! You need to do an environmental statement, go through hearings, etc.

Bull pucky, said I. PoCo rules trump 'green city' criteria. That tree was never legal, PoCo is the AHJ, and they say remove it. The city backed off, whispering that they hoped no one complained ...

On another tack ...

I'm as guilty as the next man. In planning my complete house remodel, I imagined all sorts of things for the back yard - not even once taking into consideration the power drop from the pole. Guess I won't plant that 40-ft eucalyptus tree after all

EVERYONE is steering me to 'fast growing' stuff ... nobody seems to realize that everything will eventually have to be removed, and 'fast growing' quickly becomes a maintenance issue.

Related is the issue of access. Where I lived in Reno, power lines and poles were not accessible to the PoCo. Over the years, various sheds, patios, fences, etc. had sprung up, making it impossible to get anywhere near them.

Folks just don't think of such things. Bring it up, and they're full of clever talk about how the PoCo would have to pay for this, and how it's their property, etc. Yet, these same folks will scream when they lose power. Somehow it's the PoCo's fault that their trees are keeping the repairs from being made.

Getting somewhat political, if I want a transfer switch for my house, I'll get one! "Requiring" it sounds just like the arc fault, GFCI, and Tamper resistant outlets requirements that people complain about being shoved down their throats. People doing stupid things with electricity has been around as long as there has been electricity.

I believe that requiring transfer switches fall under electrical design not electrical safety code. Based on history, the smallest cheapest device which meets the code will get installed.

There are other things I would like to see required before transfer switches.

My $.02.

Yea, what the heck. I'll just make my fortune selling suicide cords over the internet. With the NEC now requiring outdoor receptacles, I won't even need a long cord!

For the audiophiles, I'll use 'monster cable' and gold-plate the plug prongs, price them at a trendy $234.56 each.