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Joined: Jul 2007
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Yeah, what greg said...
?=^)
Welcome to the board where we just say it like it is
"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
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UL says they are unable to state that a field modification to a listed item automatically 'voids its UL Mark'. UL says approval is up to the AHJ, and that they are to ask for assistance in evaluating field modifications, if necessary.
The primary issue with UL and cords, has more to do with changing from cord to other wiring, or more typically from other wiring to cord.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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I get that argument all the time when it comes to above ground pool motor wiring. Usually the motor comes with a cord that is 16 ga wire. When I state that the NEC says 12 ga min. the EC usually says that if he changes the cord, he will void the UL listing.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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The way we understood it, if you replaced the cord as an assembly with a cord that was another option on that piece of equipment, it was still listed. The problem was when you altered a listed cord (which usually has a separate listing from the equipment)
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Pool filter pump motors for above ground pools are PITAs. Hard to believe there are still 16/3 & 14/3 cords with straight blade plugs being a 'part' of the pool package.
Debates on 'who' is responsible for the cord that is on the motor. There are listed NEC compliant replacement cords with the TL plug on the shelf at a local pool/spa dealer.
John
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Joined: Jul 2004
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This cord thing lands squarely on U/Ls back. The listing standard for pool pumps should include the 12 gauge wire and twist lock plug.
I suppose they might try to use the "storable pool pump" loophole but storable pool pumps are listed under a different standard and they are labeled differently so that is not really an excuse.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Jul 2004
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This pool pump thing is interesting. I did some research and I suppose it really depends om the brand. Pentair/Sta-Rite shows the same pumps with a 3 foot and 25 foot cord option. That begs the question, how are these labeled?( "permanent" or "storable" pool pump) I know mine is labeled "permanent pool only" (or words to that effect). Hayward Power Flo, the ones they say you use with an above ground pool, say this in the installation manual. Wiring
Pump MUST be permanently connected to circuit. If other lights or appliances are also on the same circuit,
be sure to add their amp loads before figuring wire and circuit breaker sizes. (NOTE: If unsure how to do
this or if this is confusing, consult a licensed electrician). Use the load circuit breaker as the Master On-Off
switch.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Apr 2002
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That's interesting from Hayward. I guess that ALL the above ground pools are in violation of 110.3 (b)!!
I can't recall an AG pool that was hard wired.
John
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Joined: Jul 2004
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It does make you go humm if you are strictly a by the book 110.3 guy. I suspect the lawyer got to the author after the electrical engineer finished.
More interesting to me was the same pump model being offered with 3'& 25' cords from Pentair. I have never seen a pump labeled storable or permanent. They are usually a different model number ... at least.
All of the storable pumps I have seen were actually a little shaded pole thing that hangs over the edge of the pool but I really have not seen that many.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Apr 2002
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The few 'storable' I came upon were double insulated motors, with 25' cords & a tag to 'use only in a GFI protected outlet'
I noticed quite a few along the lagoons this summer, but did not notice the pumps.
John
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