ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Covering drywall openings after new load center

Greg:
IMHO, no one would raise an eyebrow for a patch job, or anything directly related to the electrical work. The purpose of the '13V' was & is to eliminate the trunk slammers.

The contractor I mentioned with the interlinked trades has, EC, Master Plumber, & '13V' that covers him for all, plus he could also do home improvement type work.

I get that. I disagree, that I want to include patching and painting in Quotes. It would take a lot of my and my drywall friend and painter friend to coordianate these services. Not time that generates profit for me only a time liability and coordination headache. I don't want to be a general contractor and frankly it is something way outside the skill of most electricians. Heck i am sure you already know that being a good electrical contractor does not make you a good business person or even a good general contractor.

General contractors do this as a regular part of their work. To coordinate sub trades and to prepare a general scope and schedule. Even for little tiny jobs It becomes even more troublesome to get allowance prices for work I cannot limit the scope of. On 1 job the $200 allowance is gravy and on the next job of the same scope i had to do something much more expensive to fix? It is well outside my skills and competences. Yes I am sure the little customers will be thrilled to get pros for patching and the service is value added but I just would not go there. I have seen more problems over this single aspect of the trade. I do know electricians that are good drywallers and painters so for them it could be a great feature but the customer does not take this into account very often so the guy who does not patch and make good gets the job anyway because his price was lower, nevermind that his specification was too.
I make good holes and as few as possible but i never know how many I might make or the size of them and I cannot color match paint to save a life. I can get an electrical permit in 24 hours or less but building permits can take weeks and some of these jobs require building permits for the patching (very rare).
I stick to what I can control and what i can do at a trademan level. I cannot control the patch it guys schedule, work ethic, skill, customer relations, attitude except via the care I take at chosing a guy.
So I get your point but i think it carries too many pitfalls to persue it.

I love all the dancing and distractions that are getting tossed around d. Tiptoeing in GC territory indeed! Next you'll be walking away from an open trench, and telling the homeowner he needs to find a licensed gardener to replace the bits of turf you disturbed!

I'd be surprised to learn that NJ doesn't share the 'prime contractor' concept, that allows you to do whatever you need to do your job.

There's the key .... to do YOUR job. We're not talking about rocking a new house; we're talking about fixing a hole we made.

Even so, what's wrong with YOU bringing in the licensed guy to make the patch? Who's in a better position to get the guy out on short notice for a small job .... you (who can provide a steady stream of small jobs) or the homeowner (who will likely never call again)? Who's in a better position to know which contractors are reliable which are the skunks?

Just as important, would you not also welcome the other guys steering customers your way?

We sure seem to work awful hard to say 'no' .... then come here to complain about the evil GC, and how trunk slammers are stealing our business. Of course they are. GC's and trunk slammers both say 'yes' a lot.

I recall when my folks had their (finished) basement flood. Their insurance company gave them the number for some ServiceSuper company. The first guy came out, laid out a restoration plan, and then the parade began. First one contractor after another came, did his part of the job, and left. A quick, seamless effort- at least from my parent's point of view.

Yet, this forum also has plenty of contractor complaints about the "Service" companies. We need to see how they look from the customers' side.

Reno:

"I'd be surprised to learn that NJ doesn't share the 'prime contractor' concept, that allows you to do whatever you need to do your job."

I thought I made it clear, in a simple minimal number of words, but here are a few more examples.

As I said above, patching 'holes' would not raise an eyebrow, but rocking a room would. Pouring a slab for a generator, a 13VHO lic is required (slab is Building); installing a precast/composite 'pad' for a gen is no issue. An EC installing a furnace needs a 13VHO lic.

Yes, it can be a PITA, but that's how it is. I'll hunt up a link at the DCA website for all the 'rules' if anyone cares.

Reno:

Yes, I agree that in some instances an EC may have a relationship with a painter/patch guy, and they may refer work to each other.

The problem of scheduling, that's another issue!

With my EC hat on, and for the limited amount of resi I did, I took extra time to explain what the electrical work entailed. Where it was necessary to make 'holes', about how many, and the fact that my employees are electricians, not magicians, or plasterers. IF the 'holes' were notches, we would 'ROUGH' patch, not finish, and we don't paint. Everyone was OK with that, as most resi was getting painted anyway.

As to scheduling, the very few times I tried to get my nephew (painter contractor) to look at 'work', he was busy, or 'really busy' (back in the good days) That was the end of that!!

As Mikesh said, 'good holes', and only necessary holes!!

Interesting how a new member can ask something that he may have thought was 'minor', and three pages later, the thread is still jacked!

Reno
You have described a niche that some EC do work and take advantage of but you also describe a small niche that will stay small. Yes the customers will appreciate the service and probably spread the good word too but I just don't see it as profitable. If return customers are profit then maybe a great service for an EC. Since I deal with a lot of EC I can tell you I only know 1 or 2 that patch to a finished quality but they also are very good at hiding the holes and are wizards at fire blocking and crazy framing. They almost are trapped in residential work where a lot of effort goes into thin profit.
For the most part I have not worked residential and in the 30 some years in the business I doubt I have done much more than 2 or 3 months total work in residential occupancies. I went to commercial, institutional, and industrial where the money and customers are a lot better. No customer is perfect.

Maybe ..... price it both ways? Let the customer choose?

I mean, imagine the scene ... Mrs. Jones wants a ceiling fan hung. You quote her $500 "and I'll fix everything I touch". Your buddy in the other shop quotes her $400 'but customer gets to patch.' Who do you think will get the job?
(Honest question, no implied 'right' answer)

Suppose you gave her both prices. You think she might change here mind while you're working? Sounds like an easy up-sell.

Flip side is, you get the high sale and don't make a mess, it's pure profit.

Just some thinking.

Reno
The guy who patches probably gets the job but if the patch is less than perfect now he is also a crappy electrician and never gets called back.

If the house belongs to a DIY maybe the non patcher gets the job because it is cheaper and never gets blamed for poor drywall and p[ainting experience.

"never gets called back"

That's the problem the homeowner faces .... even if you do a perfect job, you're never getting called back. They're one-off jobs.

I bet we'd try harder for regular customers.

So I need to improve my drywall and painting skills but I don't actually make any money from it but I might establish a good reputation. Not a lot of motivation there.

As you mention, residential customers don't repeat. So where is the benefit for all the trouble? Like I said all my 33 years I have worked outside of residential as there is just no money and a lot of agro for residential work.

A clean shirt and a good clean up after I am done has satisfied most customers without also learning another trade that might pay back a little? So explain to me again why this is such a good idea?
OK so to a point I have been playing the devils advocate but I still stick to this> I am or at least was a good electrician but at best I am a fair dry waller. So my fair drywall skills might actually have labelled me a bad electrician because the customer judges my work on the finished drywall instead of the all hidden wires square cut outlet box clean floor, replaced insulation and the general look that no one was there working except that lousy drywall patch?
This might work for a few but I still prefer to stick to what I do well and patching ain't it.