ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Business Related Discussion Holmes on Quotes and Contracts

Reno: What about designing a lighting layout for a kitchen? They could hire a designer or an electrician. Should the electrician provide the design for free? The designer wouldn't.

By the time you get the specs for the lights and discuss all the options with the customer, you could have a lot of time invested in the job. It would be a shame to have the customer give your drawing to your competitors.

If you hand over too many details, it will eventually happen.

Maybe it's a question of wording. Your quote needs to be specific. It doesn't need to be too detailed. I would include "vapour barriers" in the quote, but not how I get them around a fished outlet.

There's another element to quotes that we're ignoring: the fact that folks DO compare quotes. Let's look into that for a second.

Say a customer gets three quotes: low, medium, and high. How is one to choose?

If the quotes don't spell things out, the customer is not any closer to getting the job done. He has no way of telling what was left out or misunderstood by the contractors. It's a crapshoot.

The customer simply must be able to tell, from the quote, what the price represents. The 'right' quote is the one that best describes what the customer is asking for.

We've all been there ... we go into a car dealer looking for a 4-door sedan, and the clown shows us coupes and station wagons. You know you're off to a bad start, because -obviously- the salesman either didn't listen, or doesn't care.

Now ... for the next hurdle:
"I didn't think it would cost so much."
Where do we go from here?

Again, the quote points the customer in the right direction(s). Either find the money, or scale back your needs.

Using the example I created earlier, our customer can reduce his cost by, perhaps, doing his own patching. Maybe a cheaper disconnect. Maybe relocating the air conditioning compressor. The point is that the detail let's the customer continue to look for a way to deal with you, rather than simply discarding your quote as 'too high.'

Perhaps we overlook that the quote isn't just a figure on paper .... it CAN be a sales tool. By describing the job in detail, you're letting the customer know you were listening, and that you care.

BTW ... did anyone else notice what I left out in the detailed quote? I just did, right now. I didn't say a word about the required service receptacle. There's a problem waiting to bite you. One has to be thinking about the details to catch that .... and the guy who gave 'just the minimum' also gave no clue whetherhe overlooked that receptacle as well.

The ONLY part of a quote that does any selling is lowest price.

The selling of competence, quality, TIMELINESS, is outside the quote.

HMH re-awarded a casino e-contract -- at a price bump of 2.7x -- to get TIMELY completion. Each day saved was worth a GC specific bonus of $100,000 per DAY.

Since the job was, cost-passed-thru, it was a no brainer.

=======

When a bid of $ xyz,000 is underbid by $ 500 -- the bid was simply redirected to a buddy. No way did the winning bidder NOT have access to the original bid.

This usually takes the form of:"You've got the job, if and only if, you beat Joe's number... $ yxz,000."

And the reply: " Okay, $ xyz,000 - less $ 500... Done."

========

There is no way on this green Earth that I'd ever detail a bid per Reno's post.

Within his quote is enough information to entirely close the gap between his knowledge and that of a seasoned apprentice with time on his hands -- and no design skills.

========

Which brings me to another beef: too many apprentices are being trained relative to the needs of the trade. Because wire is being eliminated from intra-home telecommunications there is a global glut of wire running talent.

Permitting trunk-slammers to stay in our trade is the height of folly.

The essence of craft skill is routing knowledge, not muscle-memory. Don't share it in your quote.

You can't win by doing so.

There will ALWAYS be a price-cutter out there willing to jump on your installation solution.

Ours is, generally, NOT a repeat business. Deal with it.

In fact, a Really great electrician is never needed again -- by definition.

Tesla said:
"
When a bid of $ xyz,000 is underbid by $ 500 -- the bid was simply redirected to a buddy. No way did the winning bidder NOT have access to the original bid.

This usually takes the form of:"You've got the job, if and only if, you beat Joe's number... $ yxz,000."

And the reply: " Okay, $ xyz,000 - less $ 500... Done."

That's understood!

The gripe was/is....there was no contact between the client and myself, or the EC that I sold to. It would have been nice for a phone call, or email indicating a 'lower' cost for the project, and could it be 'matched'!!!

No sense beating a dead horse though.

That's the same behaviour that is being complained about - taking a quote and showing it to the competition.

Agree 100%+ on the subject. I just threw this in to create discussion.

Frankly, I was shocked at the minimum difference, based on the O/A job budget. There was 'wiggle room'!!

I guess I have been too isolated from this to have offered an opinion. I am sorry if I was flip about it. In my additions I already had the plans and the engineering before I got the bid and I already knew who I was going with so it was really just a formality.
I understand the frustration of the contractors tho, if your customer were using the free bid as a design plan to go shopping with.

I still wonder if that is the way Holmes did business when he was still making a living as a contractor. Once these guys start being TV stars, I think their whole outlook changes.

Greg, maybe it will help if you think of Mike as just another successful contractor who has written a book.

Mike's attitudes, if his story is to be believed, are something he was raised with; he learned the trade from his father. Not many of us can say that. A lot of my stumbles are clearly because I'm learning as I go along.

Mike has many interesting ideas in his book, and his take on quotes is only one. You can be sure I'll be bringing up other positions in new threads; I just want this thread to run the course first.

I would not have brought in his attitude towards negotiating over the quote, except that negotiating is so much a part of the quote process.

It appears that most responses disagree with Mike's "be detailed" position, but also agree with his 'don't dicker' position. If life were logical, half the responses ought to show support for the man, rather than the uniform cynicism.

IMO, "Make it Right" is a worthy read for everyone here. Find it at your local home center. I find it to be a gold mine of information - not about materials and methods, but about running a business.

twh ... let's consider a little psychology for a moment.

The customer sees you specify that you will put in vapor barriers; the other guy is silent. Maybe that will get the customer wondering if the other guy left them out .... and once doubt takes root, there's no way the other guy will get the job. There's also a good feeling developing, because you're the guy he can talk to.

That's it!!! We should write a book. Then we can set the world straight.