ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

~S~:
Don't know if it's exactly back door style, but our Rehab is now based on '05 NEC, 'Regular' is still '08, & we're doing mandatory CEUs on '11 NEC. The powers that be are in the process of 'updating' Rehab to '08....which I tend to say "why bother" just wait for '11.

Confused??

John,


I am totally confused! I say throw it all out and go back to knob and tube! Just kidding!

In RI too no AFCI's on a service change . according to the state inspector.

When performing a service change the electrician is responsible to verify that each branch circuit he reconnects is in good repair and adequate for the purpose it was installed, at the time it was installed.
so if you want to reconnect a K&T circuit you need to check that there are no 3 wire outlets installed, no light fixtures that need to be connected to 90 degree wire or be bonded. You want to check for extensions to circuits that were done badly too. Check at every device to see the insulation on the wire is still in tact. Only the deficiencies need to be corrected. For a relocated outlet? today's code. Upgrades for outlets where the walls are stripped to bare studs.

Mikesh:
I know a few sparkies here in NJ that would really, really hate to have to do any of the above!

The liberal in me would want to make sure people don't have to live with totally unsafe installations while they save up for a complete re-install of everything. Instead, they should be able to upgrade incrementally. IMHO, a partial improvement now, and finishing later, is better than leaving it unimproved until later.

If a panel is being replaced, that is tearing out breakers. And I do think the AFCIs need to go in at this time on the circuits requiring them. As stated, there is the issue of shared neutral circuits still around. Tearing those out and redoing can get expensive. If the panel were in reasonably decent condition, I'd say replace the wiring first and the panel later. But if the panel is the thing in worse condition, and the home owner can currently only afford to upgrade one or the other, what would happen? I hope it's not "leave things unchanged".

Reading the comments herein, IMHO what Mikesh says is the 'Canadian' way seems to be what I refer to as acceptable trade practice here, and compliant.

As to the AFCI installation at a service upgrade, I feel the State (NJ) has the 'right' outlook for now. We (NJ) have been slow to adopt AFCI requirements ('08)compared to a lot of other states, and the sparkies I deal with have it OK by now.

That doesn't really happen in Canada - at least in my part of the country.

Hi Guys,
twh- I agree,we don't take it to the extreme,we will do a visual and look for obvious issues. If we ever tried to check all that,we would never get a job,time involved etc.

However,if we are adding or otherwise in contact with that ckt-away from the panel,we will recommend repairs.
Ultimately it is Mr. Jones' call,his check book.

My rule was I would not walk away from something that was blatantly unsafe. If this was an old building that was missing a few GFCIs I would recommend that they upgrade them but it wasn't a red tag if it was out of the scope of work.
If I saw a circuit hard wired with an orange cord I would be a little more hard nosed, no matter what the permit was all about.