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http://c-joule-effect-inc.com/electrical_fires.html

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This 'factoid' example of internet 'science' illustrates many things - none of which are discussed in the text.

The first is that this video dovetails nicely with a recent article in IAEI News discussing the imagined OPCI, or "Out of Parameter Circuit Interrupter. Beam me up, Scotty. I just can't wait for the next wave of hysteria-driven code mandates.

"The cause of most electrical fires." Really? Whay happened to overloaded extension cords or the mythical errant Romex staple? What of the penny fuse, aluminum wiring, or FPE breakers? Nope - it's been our wire nuts all along.

Bursting into flame at 55C? UL standards already require such plastics to be self-extinguishing, and I've yet to see a wire nut rated at less than 105C. That, btw., is higher than the rating of the wire insulation.

A fire needs air - and a closed box in a wall stuffed with insulation isn't likely to let much air in. You know those wastebaskets at the mall? Those are designed to restrict air entry- which is why you have probably seen one smoking, but not with flames shooting out. Same principle would work here.

I've opened up plenty of boxes, and found all manner of poor connections, but finding a heat-damaged wire nut has been quite a rare event.

"Joule effect?" What is a joule? Nothing but a unit of energy measurement. Get anything hot enough and bad things will happen.

GFCI didn't work? No surprise there .... they were never seen as a fire protection device. Breaker didn't trip? Well, breaker size aside, you can do some serious welding with the power used by the common hair dryer.

Please note this series event was not mitigated by either gfci or afci

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I think maybe the first thing to do would be to stop using those crappy Buchanan wirenuts. I always replace those whenever I find them in a box because of that very situation. IMO, those things are on a par with T&B Marrettes and those generic no-name Chinese wirenuts as far as poor quality connections go.
I'm only guessing that the Joule connector is just a thermal device, but since it tripped the circuit breaker and wouldn't let it reset, it must also create a internal line to ground fault when it activates.

Joule effect is a term of art used in thermodynamics...

And refers to a refrigeration effect caused by the expansion of high pressure gases down to room pressure -- or below.

It's sometimes used to create liquid air/ nitrogen/ oxygen.

It's not an electrical term of art at all.

Cheers.

As the site imforms us, this is a simple test

we have a series connection that creates heat, and ultimately fire

~S~

Came accross a few of these over the years...
bad connection, sloppy workmanship, 'hurry up', etc.

Can't say it was any one brand of 'nut'. Remember yellow Ideal, & the mid size 3M.

I guess I missed the Chinese version.

They are those no-name wirenuts that come in the parts bag with all the Chinese made fixtures, usually along with the supposedly 8/32 machine screws that don’t even really seem to fit the manufactures own fixture straps all that well.

Thank you sir...guess that's why I missed them!

Gentlemen.
the point of the vid is bad connections cause hot spots, arcs or no arcs, and this 'point of connection' heat becomes the culprit of electrical fires

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~s~:
OK, I found a few minutes to look at the videos, although not enough minutes to digest the whole details.

Yes, bad connections cause what you say. Now, the quest is how much is this item, and what is the availability?

I sent an RFI to them, the vids would be interesting to show my students, and would be a good CEU topic, as would be a sample of the device.

To you I say 'Thanks for the info' & stay safe & healthy!!

Hello, renosteinke

Please, Joule Effetc:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/joule+effect
or Joule heating ( it's the same ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_heating

http://c-joule-effect-inc.com/cjouleeffectincglowing_connections-electrical_-1.html

Best regards
Flv-

FLV:

Hello & WELCOME to ECN forums from one of the 'Jersey Guys'

Jump right in here anytime, Please!!

Weloome FLV

i think you'll find some of the trades best minds here

~S~

..... The heating caused by the flow of electricity ....

Gee, I wondered how my toaster worked!

What we have is some guy deliberately mucking things up, taking pretty pictures, mixing scare tactics into his speach ... then saying 'buy my product.'

It seems like only yesterday the 'vast majority' of fires, we were told, were due to arcing connections- so we needed to start using a newly invented gizmo to solve the problem.

I'm not buying it. Plus, after the whole AFCI bait & switch, I'm not about to let a slaes campaign suddenly sneak itself into the code .... even if it's 'for the children.' Call me jaded.

Do bad things happen? Of course they do. We already have 'rules' that address workmanship, and 'standards' that address reasonable design criteria. Deliberately making something fail does not prove that the 'something' was faulty.

If a rule is being violated, we fix that violation by enforcing the rule- not by adding another rule or gadget to the mix.

Hello Hotline1
Thank you for your post.
Regards,
FLV-

I totally agree with you. In my opinion, ground fault fonction and overcurrent fonction work well, since a long time. The both = GFCI. It detects contacts between phase and ground and possibly between neutral and ground and phase-neutral.(in wiring, J-box or appliances). What more with an AFCI ? I dont know. And in this video, no arc. I imagine that rule was intentionally violated to generate a glowing connection, because GC apper often after month or years. I think video highlights that "glowing connections" are undetectable, even if the rules are NOT VIOLATED.
Regards,

I don't claim to be an engineer, or scientist, or profess to have a firm grip on the 'insides' of an AFCI. When there is a 'bad connection' that generates heat, which further deteriorates said 'bad' connection, is there not an 'arc' (series arc)?? Is it less than the threshold of the AFCI cbs?

As I said above, I have seen 'burned' wirenuts over the years, and did attribute that to workmanship, be it a 'bad' splice..or a combo of a bad splice and a circuit loaded to the max.

BTW, this new item is still being developed, and is not on the market yet. Think about the elusive AFCI device!!

Hello again HotLine1

"When there is a 'bad connection' that generates heat, which further deteriorates said 'bad' connection, is there not an 'arc' (series arc)??" Not necessarily, and often not.
Arcs often reach at the end of heating (often much later). Also I tested AFCIs, and never trip with series arc! Someone tried this test?
Thank you.
Regards,
FLV -

FLV:

Lets continue this discussion please,

The 'new' AFCI cbs are supposed to detect both series and parallel arcs? I have a few videos from Siemens that show both series and parallel arcs. The last NEC change mandated the 'combo' AFCI.

HotOne,
some of what you ask is detailed in the substaintiations forwarded to CMP2

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OK, Thanks, I'll do some reading there ASAP!

Ok, Apart from my tests, I also saw a site with an NEC proposal, I think it was combinaisonAFCI.com, (try) where the author seems to be qualified.
Have a good day.
Regards,
FLV

HotOne,

first off incendiary levels can be reached without an arc

secondly, the series 'bad connection' has always, and will most likely always be the most prevelant culprit

i mention this because we (American electrical community) have nothing to address this

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~s~:
Yes, you can be incendiary ie: Renos toaster and Tom Edisons light bulbs, but those are designed to do that.

Unless we all get zapped into the fourth dimension, and enter the 'perfect world/utopia' the bad connections will be around.

Yes, there is no device available that we could use to prevent this issue, and I'm now questioning IF the combo AFCI will do what is claimed. I wonder if anyone here has attempted to do a series arc test on an AFCI CB? (Greg)
(Reno)

Hello HotLine1 and sorry, it's was no clear: "Ok, Apart from my tests, I also saw a site with an NEC proposal, I think it was combinaisonAFCI.com, (try ON GOOGLE) where the author seems to be qualified. "
I apologies.
Regards,
FLV

Alas, I have never been in a position to do any truly proper testing.

Mike Holt had a gizmo that mounted electrodes on a rail, and he could slowly separate them to make a controlled arc. I have not seen him use this since he visited AFCI central and 'drank the kool-ade.' IMO, his device would provide a very good demonstration of any type of AFCi.

Loose connections? I think we're on a unicorn hunt here.

Several years back, I posted an Image of an Ideal Red Wirenut, which had extensive Heat-Related damage.
The Wirenut was found in a 4s Box, during the Demo Phase of a Tenant Improvement (T.I.) Project.
Several others were found as well; a few were so Heat Damaged, that they disintegrated upon touch.

The culprit: Poor Workmanship!!!

It was obvious that the Terminations were done by more than One Person... most likely there were Three People doing the Makeup on these Ceiling Boxes.
The Boxes with "Poor Workmanship" comprised of less than 20%, had no Writing on the Covers (to indicate Panel / Circuits + Voltage), were only the Lighting Circuits (277V), and were the only Terminations where no Pre-Twisting was performed.

The Pre-Twisting inclusion is simply an observation of bulk Terminations, not an indication of Termination Failure where not performed, as I have seen many undamaged non Pre-Twisted Terminations.

Points to ponder:

1: The Service Capacity which these Lighting Circuits were fed from, was 4,000 Amps - 480Y/277V 3 Phase 4 Wire; so the Service Disconnect (Main Circuit Breaker in this case) included GFPE (Ground Fault Protection for Equipment).

2: The settings were dialed in for most restrictive / highest sensitivity.

3: Although the GFPE does not directly scan for Series Arcs, there was evidence in some of the effected 4s Boxes, showing L-G Arcing.

To me, the Termination issues discovered on this Project are very rare scenarios. I had been in the field for at least 24 Years when discovering the Bad Terminations. Prior to this I had uncovered only a few (no more than 5) such situations - only there was a single Termination issue (only One Wirenut in One Box total), and the Wirenut was either an obviously over-used Ideal, Scotchlock, or something in the "El-Cheapo" line...

My Conclusions:

a: Termination Failure is directly related to the experience of the Person performing the task,

b: The Workmanship placed on any installation, may vary with a Person - per the situation involved (i.e.: bad day = poor makeup),

c: The Wirenuts in this case were damaged from excessive Heat, caused by drawing 100% LCL Current through the internal spring mechanism of the Wirenut,

d: Little, if any, Series Arcing was experienced in the Wirenut,

e: The only way any Protective Device would react to these scenarios, is when a Bolted Ground Fault occurred (Wirenut Spring made contact with the Metallic Enclosure of an Outlet / Junction Box),

f: This is not a Brand-Specific issue. All brands and types of Solderless Terminations have the potential to fail this way, due to Poor Workmanship.

Just my 2¢

-- Scott

Scott, please allow me a rebuttal here.

a bad connection is the most common malady of the electrical trade,

said bad connections are usually seen as overheated terminations

this can be described as a series event, or a 'glowing contact'

give me free rein in any house wired a generation ago, and i'll wager i'll find you multiple examples

further, a glowing contact can produce incendary levels before an arc occurs

UL has finally come around recently to recognize said glowing contact as a major fire safety consideration

please look at the latest IEEE paper via a Mr Joe Engle, phd, for this>>>

http://www.combinationafci.com/resources/doc_ieee_combination_afci.pdf

thank you


~S~

To the comments made by Scott, I would like to add one thing. He mentions lighting circuits, 277 volt, etc.

Could the circuit(s) been operating at or near max amperage?

Yes, I agree with the 'workmanship' statement, as I said back in this thread. No I would not expect a GFPE main to see this potential issue until it was a L-G fault, which may be after the situation evolves into a fire condition.

And, to Sparkys comments, yes, I have found some old, porcelain wire nut, twisted, & friction taped cloth wrapped RH that had issues, most of which reared their heads when oversized plug fuses were installed. Some burned clear, a few resulted in structure damage. (From my young days in Newark, NJ areas)

'Newer' work bad connections of wire nuts (Yellow & Red) with scorch marks I have also come accross, not 'lots', but more than a handful for sure.

No debate that these situations can be a cause of a fire, Hence, splice boxes require covers.

iirc, the higher voltages are more likely to assume jacobs ladder

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/jacobs.htm

the article mentions >

A person
named F. Pashchen in 1889 published a law which sets out
what has become known as Paschen's Law. He determined
the relationship between breakdown voltage, the gap
between two metal plates, and the pressure. With air as the
gas, the minimum voltage is 327V, as shown in Fig. 5. The
peak of a 120VAC sine wave is only 170V, and thus
continuous low current arcing is, by a law of physics, not
possible with copper-copper. Thus claims that a
Combination AFCI will respond to arcing at a break in a
conductor or a loose connection flies in the face of a law of
physics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen's_law

Anything i could add would be assumption, since this is EE turf

so Scott, please be kind & translate to english k?



and workmanship?

well i'd love that perfect world where licensure, inspections, maintanence issues, and all entities involved could be on the same page

beam me up!



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More reading to peak my interests.

Great subject, this topic.