ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Sizing Generators - 12KVA enough?

TW,

As I was reading this that is exaclty what I was going to say. Except the part about installing the generators in the railroad cars.

The main question is how long do you expect the power to be out and what do you need during that time. The key word here is need.

Scott

Ahhh, Trainwire has brought up an area which I have some Qs about! I hope you don't mind me tossing Railroad related questions out.
(some parts relate to Generators and UPS / back-up power systems).
If this turns into an "Attempted Thread Jack" situation, I'll begin a new thread (or resort to direct E-mail contact).

Anyhow, on to the subjects!


Are you installing the Genny(s) in a Locomotive? Maybe in place of an original Steam Generator? (or is this a new HEP setup?).

If yes, what type of Loco is receiving the HEP package?

Does the RR you work for have any Locos with HEP packages?

Do you have experience/knowledge of units with HEP?
I am not too familiar with ALCO Diesel / Electric equipment - more an EMD and GE "Based" person! (all the major carriers in my area use EMD and GE primarily, only a handful of ALCOs dawn the motive power databases, they are normally hidden in yards - like for Hump Operations or Classification).

What's your take on the GE "Genesis" series Dash 8 units with HEP packages?
More precisely, P40 Dash 8 (dash 8 408) and P42 units.
What is the rating of the Stand-Alone HEP Genny / Prime Mover? These were the first units I experienced with a separate HEP prime mover! I was stunned when the Loco(s) stopped at a station and the main Prime Mover idled down while the cars had steady AC Power!

I was "Raised" on the EMD F40 PH, so prior to the Dash 8 experience, I had only dealt with HEP coupled to the Main Prime Mover - hence no idle down at stations / other stops (Main Prime Mover ran at steady 720 or 900 RPMs. For those thinking this is slow, this is high end RPMs for that Diesel Motor! Since it's a 2 stroke 16 cylinder beast, 900 RPMs sounds like 9,000 RPMs!!!).

Any experiences with EMD's newer units (F59 PHI to be exact). This Animal also uses a separate HEP package, plus the Main Prime Mover is a 4 stroker. Traction Motors are still DC type - and driven with DC (apparently for Passenger Duty reasons).

Outside the Drawbar Zone , I would like to get information regarding the Signal Department's stuff!

Out here, the major carriers have just about converted all Main line Subdivisions to CTC.
BNSF finally changed over the last remaining section where Santa Fe's "Rule 251" was used on a large portion of Double Track with Sidings. Trains that were overtaken went into the hole manually!

The Blocks were part ABS and TWC, and traffic ran one direction on a given track (no crossovers, like found in CTC territory!).

This is an interesting subject, so let me know if I should explain more detailed.

At Relay "houses" for Signals and Street Crossings, the power system was roughly a 120 VDC system - driven by an array of Series Connected Liquid Acid Batteries, and charged by a 5 KVA Stepdown Transformer.
Not sure if this continues here. Any ideas where I could find information about this?

Nearly all Districts use AFO for Street Crossing control / traffic sensing. Looking for detailed info on not only AFO, but control techniques per signal equipment.

Have noticed a few older Branch lines with jointed rail (as opposed to CWR), use a system that does not act like AFO!
It appears to be tripped into action, then tripped out.
Gates come down a good 2 minutes before traffic occupies the street crossing, then remain down long after the last car has cleared.

It's like they are set for 90 MPH @ 30 Seconds! The Max Speed on these Branches is 10 MPH, so street traffic piles up big time!!!
Not to mention when some clown cuts a rail joint jumper - thus setting the signals into error status (gates down for days!), the traffic really collects!

P.S. Abbreviations mean:
"AFO" = Audio Frequency Overlay,
"HEP" = Head-End Power,
"CTC" = Centralized Traffic Control,
"CWR" = Continuous Welded Rail

So many Qs', such little time!

Scott s.e.t.

Scott: OK How much time and space do you have?
Can you say "threadjack" boys and girls

Our Locomotives ARE steam generators!

See www.strasburgrailroad.com
see also http://www.staufferdiesel.com/railgenspecs.html
for the generators that I am putting in.
The generators live underneath their respective cars. There are all kinds of interlocks and relays because either generator can power the trainline, or a single generator can power both the parlor car and the dining car, or a landline can power the train, (when we are sitting in the station of course ), The load calculations are very similar to what WV was dealing with. Fridges and hot water heaters and ovens etc etc etc.

You sure of the 120 vdc in the relay houses? I'm pretty sure it's all only 12. Or at least the ones that my friends at the amtrak signal shop build are. In ours there is 235 AH nicad cells. The feds require that the gates be "held clear" for seven days with no ac power applied.
Any way without making this too long, or making it into a railfan BB, I personally don't think Sparky wv's genset needs to be as big as he was proposing this morning.

TW
PS, I would be more than happy to tell you what I know, which isn't much, by email or another thread, out of respect for WV.


edited to add ps
[This message has been edited by Trainwire (edited 01-14-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Trainwire (edited 01-14-2003).]

In a residential application, my suggestion is turn off all items not wanted during an outage. Check to be sure the occupants will tollerate the items being off for 24 hours. During those 24 hours, place an ampprobe with a max function on the incomming feeders, and vwola, you get the exact surge capacity needed. The standby rating of the generator, could be determined by watching the meter for a half hour or so, and determine tha actual demand.

Trainwire,

I'll start a new thread about this RR stuff.

Virgil,

Sorry to get all carried away and force this thread to fly to Cuba

Scott s.e.t.

How dare you threadjack my topic!

</double standard>

-Virgil, the Threadjack King