ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area What do you use to cut in can lights?

I managed to get these things in using a combination of my razor cutter, a drywall saw and my sawzall when I hit a purlin in the exact place my wife wanted a can. (we had already negotiated away from the trusses)

Dust from the cutting operation was not the issue. It was the 8" of 30 year old cellulose blow in insulation that came down. By now that has degraded into about 3-4" worth of gray dust. That is miserable stuff that I would not wish on my worst enemy and he is the guy who invented it.

Another question, maybe for Harold. Back in the olden days Wiz had a trick for locating a wire in a wall with an AM radio. I know you can use a toner but I don't have one anymore. Anyone have that procedure, or a better idea?
When they were putting the roof on and had the sheathing off of a spot on an outside wall I shoved 8' of Romex in the wall and now I can't find it. I can get to the other end up in the attic but I am having a hard time correlating that to a wall cavity.

I use a green hole saw from Home Depot, I think it's an Ideal, anyway it's abrasive and works great on plaster and drywall. It comes with an arbor and the price is cheap for the amount of holes you get (hundreds).The plastic dish they give you works if your hands are big enough to hold it against the ceiling with your index finger while drilling, otherwise it spins around and chucks dust everywhere and scratches the ceiling.

Now as for the blown in insulation, here's my trick, I'm pretty sure I invented it. First I drill a 1/4" hole in the center and probe around to see if the location is good. Then I drill another hole with a small hole saw, say about 3/4". This hole is drilled OFF CENTER. Then I fish the wire thru the offset hole, only pulling out a tiny bit of it. Next I take the hole saw and cut thru the first layer of paper and the rock, but I leave most of the backing paper intact on the backside. Then I pull the wire(s) all the way out, wire the can, and take a drywall saw and cut that last bit of paper, shoving the can and the drywall piece up into the attic all at once. Nary a shred of insulation will fall.

Greg,

What I would do to find hidden wires or duct work or trusses in the ceiling was to put a small hole in the center of the can, and insert a piece of wire. The wire would be at least a #12 ga or #10 ga and I would bend it to 1/2 the diameter of the hi hat. (ie for 6"can, I would bend the wire at 3") The wire was bent like this

_____
!
!
!
!_____

(I hope this diagram goes through.)

Then I would spin the wire around and around while I raise and lower the wire the full depth of the can. If there was any pipe or duct or beam, the wire would hit it and you could almost tell exactly where the obstruction was. You would then just move the hole around a little bit until it was all clear. Then install the can.

The diagram came out wrong but it will still work. The top piece usually is 180 deg of the bottom piece. The top piece was 3" ( or 1/2 width of can) the upright piece was the height of the can. The bottom piece can be what ever.

Do I understand correctly, that the insulation is in direct contact with the can?

Absolutly, they are IC rated 6" cans. I cannot do 4" cans this way however as there is no 4" IC rated remodel can made.

These are IC cans but I did push away all of the cellulose and ringed the can with fiberglass.
This is Florida so I am not as fanatic about attic insulation as people who run the heat.

I haven't installed a 6 inch light in years, but I've replaced a few with 4 inch. Anyway, I think the whole thing is an issue of fashion over function, so it isn't surprising that the fads are different.

We have to install a vapor barrier over the lights. Think about cutting a hole over the kitchen sink, putting your hand up and touching the roof above the hole. Now imagine crawling out to the hole from above, pushing insulation and spanning the rafters with your elbows and knees. That's why my family wears head lamps when we do dishes. I'll do that work for money but not for love.