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#200381 - 03/29/11 06:56 PM Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco]
Brian_Rock Offline
New Member

Registered: 03/28/11
Posts: 5
Loc: Connecticut
No, the Code change itself was motivated by servicer injuries. This is noted in that ROP and ROC elsewhere in the Substantiations and in the CMP's Statements.

I was specifically addressing Joe Tedesco's question regarding why the NEC® treats dwellings differently on then-410.79(G) / now-410.130(G). The Proposers were explaining why they were omitting dwellings in the portion I cited.

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#200382 - 03/29/11 07:30 PM Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: HotLine1]
LEO_304E Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 9
Loc: MASSACHUSETTS
Originally Posted By: HotLine1
Joe:
Back to your question.

Perhaps it's a numbers issue, as there are (on average) fewer fluorescent fixtures within a resi than comm?

The intent of reducing/eliminating a possible hazard to untrained (or under trained) unqualified persons would be the same in any location IMHO.

I still come upon the occasional jobsite where the 'factory' 'sta-con' connectors are cut off & laying on the floor.

Another issue is how is this to be enforced with replacement ballasts? Here the replacement is considered an 'ordinary repair' and no permit/inspection is required.



I don't under stand why they would want untraind persons changing ballast's in the first place.

you would think that would lead to more work place accidents not less...

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#200383 - 03/29/11 07:53 PM Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Brian_Rock]
LEO_304E Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 9
Loc: MASSACHUSETTS
Originally Posted By: Brian_Rock
This "other than dwellings and associated accessory structures" wording goes back first to the Proposals for the 2005 NEC®. Back then, this 410.130(G) was numbered to fall into 410.79 and was ultimately designated as 410.79(G).

From the May 2004 ROP, Proposals 18-92 (Log #1780) from Craig Wellman and 18-93 (Log #3421) from Danny Liggett proposed this requirement, each with slightly different wordings.

The original wording in those Proposals was "other than dwellings and related/associated outbuildings".

For your question, a portion of the Substantiation to P18-92 (Log #1780) goes to the heart of your question:
"In commercial, industrial, institutional and government facilities, it is often unsafe or impractical to turn off power to luminaires at the panelboard. Turning off the power may leave a room in the dark or may reduce illumination, which in some cases can/could create work related hazards for facility occupants. ..."

So, reading between the lines, the distinction seems to be that dwellings and associated accessory structures are exempted from this luminaire disconnect requirement because:
• dwellings are not as large as those other occupancies to have as great a distance between panelboard and the luminaire being serviced
• rooms in dwellings generally have windows (for fire egress) that allow natural illumination whereas those other occupancies more typically include rooms without windows

Great post Brian and Welcome to the forum.. smile

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#200390 - 03/30/11 07:02 AM Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Brian_Rock]
sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5433
Originally Posted By: Brian_Rock
No, the Code change itself was motivated by servicer injuries. This is noted in that ROP and ROC elsewhere in the Substantiations and in the CMP's Statements.



Yes, i understand the CMP have substantiations they base code changes on Brian

but i question those service injuries, and would wager many are the sign guys, or maintenance men

Certain electrical equipment are manufactured with these sorts in mind, like fusible disconnects that have an interlocking door mechanism cutting power to the fuses

Yet here we have a code requesting these same sorts, who will never own a copy of the NEC, install a safety device

So their substaintiation is rather cyclical logic

just imho....

further still, i bought a tin of these>



i'm less than impressed

~S~

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#200492 - 04/03/11 09:20 AM Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco]
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member

Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3298
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Dwellings include multifamily like the one I live in and there are many ballasts installed in the underground parking garage, storage rooms, electrical closets, and stairwells. They should make it clear that these types of buildings should meet the main rule.
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

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