ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Parking Lot Pipe

If the lateral is under 4" of concrete, extending out 6" on each side it can be virtually right under the concrete. I would still want it bedded in dirt cover before the concrete was poured. From a practical sense the homeowner would still want some dirt over the concrete so they can grow grass.
You end up with ledge at one foot, (2"?) RNC up to about 9" down bedded in fill, 4" of concrete and 5" of topsoil/sod.

Greg hit on the issue: It's tougher to say he can't run the pipe on the surface.

I went back this AM, and with an empty lot and daylight, the installation isn't quite as it appeared to me the other night. I agree this is a real hack job that should have been red-tagged ... for a few different reasons.

I'll post some pics later this evening - say, in about 6 hours. I think you'll see how I was misled.

OK, here are the pics, as promised.

I have sometimes wondered about 300.5 - what if, I wondered, you simply laid the pipe in a shallow trough? Since it's not buried, you can't apply burial depth rules. But, would the sides and bottom of the trough meet support requirements? Would the pipe be sufficiently protected?

So, when I saw this the other evening, I thought I had encountered such an installation. Look it over:


(The white vee's point to the trough)

From the end:



Let's look at this as if it were a proper installation. Looking at the entire pipe run, including the parts more distant, convinced me that this was NOT a careful exploitation of a code technicality.

Reno:
A blatant of stretching a technicality within the code? Yes!
As I said up above, I would put a red tag on this, and go with subject to physical damage, and support issues. 300.5 thrown in also.
Would the red tag stand? I feel it would.

With the weather conditions we have here (NJ), the first snow, and/or the first freeze/thaw cycle would destroy the 'speed bump' in your pic.

The last parking lot re-feed job was in a fairly good size strip mall, it was done with a Vermeer wheel cutter, 18" to 20" depth, 2" QP bed, 2" QP top of pipe and concrete to 3" below grade for blacktop sub-base and finish layer. Yes, it was 1-1/4" RGC. This was a 'spec' re-feed.

Being curious, what do the source and load look like?

John, words fail me ....

When I went there this AM, my heart was broken. The 'trough' portion of the run is the ONLY part of the run that comes even close to meeting code minimums. Indeed, it's worth a thread of its' own: lack of support, NO anchors, partial burial, exposure to damage, actual damage (I think the raceway is separated at one point), half-hearted repairs, corrosion .... a real hack job.

Now, stepping into the future .... were I given a blank sheet of paper to design such a feed to a pole light ... and considering the various such reeds I've had to repair over the years .... maybe I'd do it like this:

An 'in the ground' box at either end, with a 2" SWEEP (long radius el) exiting the bottom. 2" IMC for strength, pipe wrap tape for protection. Between the box and the sweep, this would put the pipe an honest 30" down. Nice layer of contrasting sand under and over the pipe. Fill with compacted gravel and pave. Individual wires, with a full size ground.

Overkill? Probably - but someone WILL someday have to replace the wires, and the 2" is both big enough and strong enough that it just might survive a number of paving operations. I like the els because they allow for a straight up pull and a straight down feed. Alternate material: Schedule 80 pvc with primer as well as glue on the joints.

Why the boxes? Because the transition to underground seems to always be problematic. They also make for a more forgiving install, should they later add a light or the sign pole gets knocked down.

I wonder if that pipe will last through the first snowplowing.

Reno:
Your plan sounds like a plan. Over the years, I (EC) did a lot of site lighting, and a lot of site lighting repairs, both on 'old' and 'newer' sites.

Installs used the largest size conduit that 'worked', when into the sonotubes. The remote box was used, if the site conditions/design allowed; and yes...it was a god send for changes.

One of my 'pet' items is on site ltg 'repairs' running RGC exterior of the sonotube base & entering the side of the pole. 410.30 (b)(2)

"(2) Where raceway risers or cable is not installed within the pole, a threaded fitting or nipple shall be brazed, welded, or attached to the pole opposite the handhole for the supply connection."

Interpertation on 'attached' varies by areas. Also, the 'threaded fitting/nipple' goes the same way.

I've seen, flex (sealtite), PVC 40 & 80, EMT, IMC, RGC carflex (smurf), irrigation black PVC pipe, DB, UF & Al conductors just buried. Sch 40 PVC at 6" in planting beds, etc. Best was a 30x30PVC carlon box in a planter bed with 12: of mulch over it that had the cover collapse.

How is the terminations on your 'find'?

John ... you've given me an assignment. I think I'll take some pics around town, and show some different ways of entering a pole.

Give me a week or two; I think this detail deserves its' own thread.

As for the terminations on this 'find?' The pipe originates on the opposite side of the building at a box. I can't reacll whether the box was intended for outdoor use; decades of paint make that hard to tell, and have sealed it anyway.

The pipe exits the lot to a small grassy area, where the pipe is 'buried' under a thick layer of dust and grass clippings. After a short run, there is a 90 to a box on the side of the pole base. Someone has tapped into the box with a length of romex as well - no telling what is going on there.

Snow plows? Funny you should mention that. Closer examination of the far end of the run (as seen in the pictures) show that the pipe had been hit a few times, and those impacts is what probably led to the little asphalt 'ramps' being installed. I think the installer really thought the pipe could simply rest in the expansion joint between paving sections.

Snow in Reno?

I always thought that's a warm climate!

I'll take a few pics, as long as I remember the camera

Well, if colder temperatures can be touted as 'proof' of Global Warming, anything could happen.

LOL

Remember January 11, 2008?
It snowed in Baghdad that Friday morning.