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Joined: Jul 2004
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G
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You notice in the ad Techie linked, they call these things "RVs". That gets them out from under HUD rules and until you actually take the wheels off and hard wire them to the utility, most building department rules. When they set this thing in a trailer park near me the park owner was mad at me because I insisted they get a permit and a real electrician. Most of the units in there were installed by the park staff, without any permits.
This was a 362 square foot unit and I think they only paid $18,000 for it. Those Tumbleweeds seem very expensive.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Mar 2005
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My toolshed is larger than most of those "homes" and it only cost me $1000 wink

I've fielded a number of questions about DIY building tiny homes like these from people (mostly idealistic young college kids used to sharing a tiny dorm room and riding buses everywhere) who think a tiny house is a good idea. Most get frustrated when reality strikes (McMansions are popular for very good reasons!) but some genuinely want to live this way and it's no sweat off my back.

Joined: Jul 2007
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Being built off site puts a different spin on it. Just like trailers, modulars, and RV's they are to be built under "factory" type setting, the wiring needs to be under the supervision of an electrical engineer. Sad thing is that if its good enough for the engineer, it's good enough. Bunk the code. In their eyes


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
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Well, that's the issue, isn't it?

Look at Techie's link closer; you will note that the 'small houses' ARE houses, and not RV's. I didn't open this thread to discuss camping trailers.

The plans for the 'small houses' (not to be confused with the trailer plans) are asserted to comply with the UBC. This would suggest that there is no requirement for there to be a 'bedroom,' and that an area that did not meet 'habitable space' requirements could be used as the sleeping area.

Following the designer down this primrose path, the sleeping area would not have any requirements applied to it - be they lighting, access, whatever - that would kick in were the area considered 'habitable.'

I think Greg hit on it when he noticed that receptacle spacing is measures 'along the floor.' If there's no floor, only sleeping space, then there's no requirement for receptacles. A similar logic applies to lighting, which is required only for habitable spaces. No lights, no receps ... no AFCI requirement. As you might guess, you don't need any floor space to climb onto a bed from and adjacent area- so the bedd need not be in a 'room' at all.

I think we see a similar 'loophole' when 'hunting cabins' are built. That is, standard practices and codes are routinely ignored - indeed, local codes specifically exempt such structures from regulation. The difference here is that these structures ARE intended for permanant occupation.

Last edited by renosteinke; 11/18/10 06:09 PM.
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Reno This is clipped right from the site under "tiny houses"


Quote

These small homes range from 65-140 square feet. Because they are on wheels, they are considered travel trailers, and do not require a building permit. You can pretty much put one anywhere you can place an RV.


They use the RV designation to avoid the HUD rules for park model trailers and manufactured homes.


Greg Fretwell
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Look, I don't want to get side-tracked in dissecting one site. That's not the only source I'm looking at ... and that same site has actual house plans for stuff too large to put on wheels.

I thought I was pretty clear when I said the homes I was discussing were asserted to meet building codes - not HUD rules, trailer rules, camper rules, or any other sort of rules. To attempt to apply the NEC, or other building codes to something that was outside their scope would be a meaningless discussion.

The small homes bring up many other issues ... for example, the tiny, nearly counterless kitchens often also have the laundry equipment- which can open an entire discussion about SABC's. That's what this is, though - another discussion, perhaps for another thread.

Look at that site's plans for the larger homes, and you'll see that the use of lofts as sleeping areas is not limited to the trailers alone. Alternatively, some designs have raised platforms in cupboards as the place to stick a mattress (cupboard dimentions match standard mattress sizes, with no open space), or a similarly tight 'bump out'. The author is quite open in stating that his sleeping areas often do not qualify as 'habitable rooms' under the building code. In several instances, only the central portion of the sleeping area is 'habitable,' with the margins also in use. So, there, in effect, we have a 'habitable' area without either walls or a floor - quite a feat!

I will admit that I am in no position to evaluate the authors' assertions that their various schemes 'meet code.' I have neither the information nor the competence to make that call. I also note that none of these various designers make any claim to being architects, or having any professional expertise at all- so their assertions may be in error.

Architects are forever designing things in a manner that seems intended to confound codes. Perhaps that's the best reason for codes to stay out of the 'design' business.

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One room homes will always pose a problem but that is where good cooperation between the building department and the builder will make things work out OK. There are some hard rules that will have to be met (2 SABCs, 20a bathroom circuit plus the 20a laundry and the 3va per sq/ft under AFCI) but you are still talking about a fairly modest requirement in the minimum 100a panel. These problems should be able to be worked out.

:rant bit on
Unfortunately the problem may be the front office people will not actually let the builder talk directly with the building official and some checklist will replace reason.
:rant bit off


Greg Fretwell
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