ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Language on the panel directory?

In our office buildings every receptacle, most junction boxes. whips to furniture etc. get a lable that indicates the breaker panel and breaker(s) that turn them off. Every panel has a lable on it indicateing its name.

I certainly agree with Harold that the 'furnished' directories are woefully inadequate.

Yet, if you simply print up a nice, large, clear directory, someone is sure to complain that you've covered up 'essential' lables on the panel. That, I conclude, points right to the core of the problem.

The core is: everyone wants to write rules to make their particular task easier- but no one cares about the final user! As far as the consumer is concerned, all those code & listing required lables - in multiple languages and multiple orientations, no less!- are as relevant as the legendary mattress tag.

IMO, our entire approach to panels took a wrong turn right from the start- and a lot has to do with the manufacturers' influence on the code panels. Sometimes, it seems that certain manufacturers care greatly about everone EXCEPT the consumer, even want to 'load the dice' against the final uses; but I wander.

It's not that the consumer doesn't care; the box stores sell plenty of labled magnets for sticking on the panel next to the breakers! At the other end of the wire, the phone guys have had lables on their cover plates since Eisenhower was in Office.

If only breakers were the only identification issue. I worked in one office building where circuits often originated in different tenants' offices on different floors - and even the service was mis-labled, as folks took their old office numbers with them when they moved! (So the meter that read "Suite 101" could very easily be feeding an office that had "318" on the door).

Remember: it's the final customer who pays our bills; we need to serve him, rather than expecting him to serve us.

Yes Reno, on some panels the blank directory on the door is woefully inadequate for any 'clear' attempt at identifing the loads on a breaker. That leads to creativeness on the part of the installer/electrician.

Personally, I have no gripe with a label adjacent to the cb on the panel, nor do I have anything against a 'directory' that is adjacent to, or attached to a panel.

Perhaps it may be time for some of the mfgs to look into the directory requirements spelled out in the NEC, and come up with a more 'compliant' directory.

For instance, why do they glue the mfg info data dead center on the 40 circuit panel door? Why not favor the top or bottom quadrants to allow for a larger directory?

BTW, what do you guys think of the clear plastic sleeve on the comm/ind panels, with the removable directory card?

Perhaps this would be an opportunity for a creative person to offer an aftermarket directory. I could see some kind of multi page album type deal where you have a couple of pages to write on.

Internationally, I typically require all panels (and key controls for generators, HVAC systems, etc) to be labeled in both english and the local language.

It's simply unsafe for a panel to be labeled in a way that's unclear to someone who may need to use it.

I took a pic of a english/chineese directory today, an will post it ASAP.

A bit of a tangent here ...

How often have you seen a panel labled with information besides specific circuit details?

I think we see it all the time .... at a minimum, when certain breakers are marked as the ones to turn on at sunset (outside lights and signs) or to turn off at closing. I've also seen circuits tagged as the ones you want to flip when the Fire Marshal comes to inspect the exit signs and bugeyes. Or, the ones that are also controlled by the Ansul system.

What I'm getting at is that the panel makers have really dropped the ball, by providing products that are so unfit for this most basic of functions. Heck, all they need to do is paint the covers in a satin-white paint that you can write on! Or, for that matter, leave the face of the breaker blank, with a lable to fill in. (Do we really need the UL lable, AIR, etc., to be visible, readable with a magnifying glass, for all time?)

Ever come to work on Monday the day after the painters have repainted the entire office? They take off all the plates and replace them in random locations.
worse than that is this happens the morning the engineer is doing his final walk through to check on spec compliance and to sign off. The first circuit we turn off is mis-labelled and we look like morons until the clean up guy tells us about the painters over the weekend.
Fortunately we had good as builts to rearrange the labelling.

Mike at least you had a new building.

Your story reminds me of the time in the 80's when the painters came through one of our buildings on a weekend and took off all the face plates and coax leads (200 +/- dumb terminals / printers), to make it easier to paint the walls with a roller.

Had to spend Monday reconnecting everything to the proper wall jacks as we figured out which ones were which.

Painters don't touch the electrical. They cut in around them. Nobody touches electrical but electrician. Company is very serious about only properly trained persons operating equipment(tow motors, scissor lifts etc.) or opening things they don't belong inside of.