ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Alternative Energy Off Grid or expanded and smart grid?

No lighting was added... The panels are located in an island in the middle of the I-5/I-205 interchange, so there are some lights around. One of the claims/reasons given for doing the project, is to offset the power consumed by the highway lighting. This was a small-scale test project for an even bigger project up the highway which is currently stalled not because of the cost or perceived benefit, but because the rich people across the river claim it will be too ugly to look at on the hillside.

Here's the monitoring data, with some very basic project info: http://live.deckmonitoring.com/?id=solarhighway

Greg:
Maybe Alan has a point? The POCO pole mounted solar panels here (NJ) some are mounted under the streetlights.

As most streetlights were changed out to induction units at 150 watts, I wonder if the panel underneath puts out the rated 200 watts at nite?

Kinda like a perpetual motion thing??? LOL

Street luminaires ? well it can be done but how effect it will be due the type of bulb colour that may affect so I haven't try the test yet.

But if you use the common run of mill HPS and MH and see the diffrence between the two I don't think it will make a wide margan on diffrence on luminaire source.

Merci.
Marc

Look on it as 'regenerative braking for photons' - It was all headed for the Martians anyways!

I can see the attraction of your own battery storage, because you are not then at the mercy of future POCO tariff differentials between your production and use suddenly making a mockery of your original investment calculations. Or at the mercy of power cuts. On the other hand, the grid ain't going to wear out like a set of storage cells and would be equal to a heck of a lot of $$$ worth of them. One thing bothers me. If you are generating at 240v, your power is not going to go economically more than a few miles, unless it backfeeds the transmission transformers to higher voltages. Is that possible?

Until there is a very significant amount of grid tie PV it won't really have to travel very far. Usually your next door neighbor will use all of your excess unless he is making more than he can use.

Greg I have the feeling that like mobile phones, hula hoops and broadband, PV will suddenly take off to the point where we all have them and can't imagine how we managed before - probably triggered by a really cheap cell becoming available.

Alan:
The project titled 'Big' is a solar farm (POCO owned) that has zero consumption at the site, and is considered a 'generation plant'.

Panels, to combiner boxes, to inverters (output 480 volt) to feed padmount transformers (480 to 13.2KV)

I can't say how 'far' it's going to travel....those pesky little electrons are tough to follow & look alike! LOL

Well, I just read an IAEI article that lets the cat out of the bag: the motive behind the 'smart grid' push is purely political, an experiment in social science to regulate / modify behavior.

What behavior is encouraged? That's harder to fathom ... what's clear is that having the information available, as well as variable utility rates, will allow "someone" to influence your choices by opening your pocketbook.

We could very well end up with something like airline fares today, where no two people pay the same rate. This will also insert another agency into the mix the next time you build a hot tub or even replace a water heater.

Remember: The abuse of power is always in the right hands.

In reference to the OP and I apologize if I duplicate any info. It has been a very busy summeer and week and I am too tied to read trough all the posts. Just like to be a sucessful business, its location, location, location. The industry as a whole is leaning more to grid tie and less to off grid. Its world wide and the US is lagging behind the rest of the industrail world.

Due to the high cost of construction of a complete system, its a hard pill to swallow to pay your electric bill up front per say and if the system will not pay for its self then, why even bother? I have done several off grid systems here in Alaska. They came with a pretty heafty price tag giving their locations that are only used in the sunmmer. It those same locations that makes it a viable solution especially since the higher fuel costs and the cost to get fuel to these sites. On the other side of the coin a grid tie system is not viable since most larger comuunities are on hydro and the sun is not the best source in the winter months up here. At the remote sites, its like $3.00 per kilowatt (not a typo) com paired to $0.08 to $0.65 cents pending on where you live.

With a grid-tie system, the POCO's may be required to buy your surplus power but they are the ones who set the rates and the requirements. They will charge you retail for their power that you use but will only pay you wholesale for what you sell them. They basically call the shots on theit compitition. Even though you may be pay $0.15 or what ever per kWh, you will only get like $0.04 per suplus kWh. It varies form location to location.

For the most part, the systems being built are heavily funded with grants and tax incentives to help offset the initial costs. Its too much for the average Joe homeowner to do on his/her own. Its still too cost prohibitiive.

I cannot accept the statement that the PoCo chrges retail and pays wholesale.

Rather, I am aware of the many states that have 'net metering' laws. That is, the PoCo pays you the same rate that they charge you. Period.

True, there are limits; typically the PoCo will not 'buy' more than you use - or will issue you credits, rather than write you a check.

Less obvious is the fact that even if you used ZERO power from the PoCo, you'd still be 'on the hook' for all the 'non KWH' fees and taxes that are added to your PoCo bill. For most of us, these additional charges represent a third of our bill!

Let's face it ... as 'evil' as the PoCo may be, it has only been made worse by all the political interference that has occurred.