ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Fire Pump feed

Here is mt 2 cents (for what ever it is worth)

The AHJ would figure out what kind of a pump it is by the design engineer. What's that, no design? Then get an EE to design something for this project so that we can do a plan review of this project. We are the AHJ's but we do not do design the work.

I agree AHJ does not make the call, But now if engineer does where does he get the info to make that call. Remember its not a stand alone building. Its a Township Water pumping station. There all over the country.
Yoopersup

Sounds like the Township Engineer, Water Dept. Head, or possibly a consulting hydrostatic engineer should be qualified.

Bottom line:

Not your problem. Above your pay grade.
Let the powers decide.
I can see this project getting started in the next 10 years.
QUICK, PUNT !!! Then politely ask them to call you.

Or treat it like a fire pump and spend all your time and money to finally not get the job.

I'm still trying to figure if this is for 'real' or a mind bender.

Personaly, I would like/let them (the powers),TELL ME what this pump is.


My opinion: It is a make up water pump for general usage..

Any other use is purely coincidental.

John,

When I was still in business, I worked for several towns, and I know how cheap they can be. I have also be called on to "design" something for a town. I questioned the town once about a new above ground gas tank and I was waiting for the Fire Subcode to get back to me on where to place the emergency stop button. By the time he got back to me, I lost the job, the town didn't think I was interested in it. I told them the where the Fire Subcode wanted that stop button could make a big difference in the price of the job. Oh Well!

So far tons of opions but no answers????
Yes it is a real sitution.
Common in Many parts of the Country.
Who makes that Decision.
Not Township (there asking Question)
Engineer (Where does he get the Answer)
Powers?? (What powers)
Inspector plan Review ( Does he have reference to consult) or just go by whats on drawings??(U know there not always right.
Like I said probally same sutution most towns.

I would say that either the AHJ or the Engineer should tell you if it's a regular pump or a Fire Pump.

How they will determine it is irrelevant...once they do, your butt will not be the one in the sling.
The AHJ has bosses to answer to and the Engineer is generally legally liable for whatever he decides.

In either event, you're just installing the thing to the standards that you were told to install it to; so any future fingerpointing shouldn't end up pointing at you.

We have called for and have had installed similar pumps in a fire pump situations. So here is a possible understanding of this situation and a way to make a proper judgement call if you are in that AHJ position.

Our pump setups were such that you had the regular fire pump, but because the domestic water could not keep up with fire demand (such as a well or end of a limited domestic supply and you don't want to collapse the water lines by pumping to hard), or if the system is required to have an antifreeze due to winter time shutdown of the facility (yes, I know of the UL bulletin on cease and desist these types of systems while they investigate), a secondary storage tank with an air break is needed (avoids cross contaminations). So a pump that cannot keep up with fire flow, but with the storage of the tank can for the required time (figured out by someone else) is installed. This pump must be treated as a fire pump as it is a required part of the fire sprinkler system.

So look at the pumps purpose, if it is an integral part of the fire proetection system, even if seeming ancillary, treat it the same as a fire pump.

I hope that this doesn't cloud the waters.

Shane

Shane:
If I read you correctly, a set of plans with all the required info/data, by a design professional should be the first or second thing BOTH the AHJ, and the prospective EC's all 'see'.

It may be in the OPs case that there are no plans, specifications, and the Twp is looking for something on an 'unofficial design/build' situation.

In my experience, jobs such as this that go in the general direction of 'design/build' tend to be a way for the Owner to shift the blame to someone else if something is done wrong.
I would expect that someone with "more skin in the game" tell me what this pump is. Then I can get it installed per the proper Codes with no further direction from them.
I don't want to treat it as a standard motor and get nailed a few years down the road when the building burns down with some hotshot saying that it was MY fault because it didn't wire it per NEC 495...or go full boat and get unpaid when I send a bill because I went overboard when all that they wanted was a plain motor installation.
This could get pretty sticky either way.